CarrieAnn Gaines - Founder and CEO of A Safe Pack

CarrieAnn is the founder and CEO of A Safe Pack - a product she developed to help make sure every child comes home safe. Originally from Buffalo, NY where she also attended college, CarrieAnn worked for 5 years as a fitness coordinator for the US Navy. As a mother herself of two boys, she took action and created a bullet-proof backpack to help keep kids safe at school. She shares about coming up with the turtle mascot and how that helped her reframe how her product was introduced which led to being interviewed on the Kathy Ireland show. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/Mx4DtoHz6XA

Brian Harbin: Well, hello!

My name is Brian Harbin. Welcome to today's episode of the grit.org podcast! Excited to have CarrieAnn Gaines with us here today!

CarrieAnn, welcome!

CarrieAnn Gaines: Thank you so much! I'm very excited to be here! I'm grateful!

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. So Carrie is originally from Buffalo, New York, went to college in New York as well, spent 5 years as a fitness coordinator for the US Navy and is founder and CEO of A Safe Pack — a bulletproof backpack body armor, making sure every child comes home safe. She's had national coverage with her product, including being interviewed on the Kathy Ireland Show, and is married to her husband Alex of 15 years and has 2 teenage boys. 

Before we hop into that first question, Carrie wanted to give a quick shout out to today's sponsor, escrow.com. The world's most secure payment method for online transactions. So whether your transaction is $100 or $100 million, escrow.com makes buying and selling online safe, secure, and trusted. So you can rest assured your transaction for motor vehicle, electronic equipment, business domain name, or anything significant to you is protected. Visit escrow.com today to learn more about how you can transact with confidence. 

So, Carrie, wanted… we always like to kind of start at the beginning. I know growing up in Buffalo, New York, You know, looking back over your childhood, any particular principles that were instilled in you early on by any particular family members, mentors, like anything that kind of stands out from your early years for you that kind of helped shape who you are today?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, absolutely. One of my biggest mentors was my father. He was a Marine and he really was a diehard Marine. He stuck to the principles of hard work and stick to your guns and nothing will be handed to you. And also be humble and kind to other people. And he was into exercise and bodybuilding and things like that. 

And again, you know, the only person that's going to do for you is you. So, you know, once you make a decision that you're going to do something, you know, dig your heels in and you can do anything you want to do.

Brian Harbin: I love that! Yeah. And growing up with a Marine, I'm sure very structured environment. Did you have siblings as well? I know we were talking about our own kids and siblings earlier, but you know, what was that dynamic like with your siblings?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yeah, it really is funny. I do have a brother. He's 15 months older than me. And it was very interesting because, again, my dad was very involved in exercise and lifting weights and things. And my brother really couldn't be bothered with any part of it. And so my dad would say to me, you know, this is quality time with Daddy. So we had a basement in Buffalo, New York, and my dad would lift weights and he'd bench real heavy. And I was probably 4 or 5 years old and I had a little baby carriage and I'd have my little baby alive in there. And I would rock my baby and ride around the basement. 

And then when he would get ready to do a set, he'd say, okay, now watch Daddy and make sure that bar goes up and down. And if it doesn't, you gotta run for help as fast as you can. So, yeah, so my brother really worked…

Brian Harbin: Never had to though, I'm guessing, right?

CarrieAnn Gaines: No, sir. Never had to run for help. He'd always do his set and he'd play records and he'd dance around with me and I'd play with my babies. And, and I, you know, my mother was and still is an amazing cook. I mean, she can cook anything. She's a great baker. And I have never learned to cook, never anything. And through my bodybuilding career, I always said I probably could have been like Betty Crocker or something, but I was lifting weights at the time. 

So, instead, this was my thing. But yeah, my brother, he just really never got involved in it. But, you know, he exercises and stays fit as well, but never really got into it as much as I did.

Brian Harbin: And what were some of those early passions for you as a kid? Any particular, you know, sports interests? I know you got into weightlifting, but, you know, any early jobs that kind of stand out?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Absolutely. One of my first jobs was I was a lifeguard. And again, as a small kid, my dad was trying to get me to, you know, do some sort of exercises while I wasn't playing with my baby dolls. And so I would hang on a pipe in the basement and I'd do pull-ups or he'd have me do push-ups and things like that. And I actually got involved in swimming and I wanted to be a butterflyer. 

So my dad said, well, you're going to have to have a strong back and strong shoulders in order to do that. So that was really kind of what progressed into my life, my job as a lifeguard was my dad would have me do little exercises and things like that to be a strong swimmer. So I was a swimmer all through, like, elementary, junior high, into high school. And then eventually, once I got into college, I did an internship with Walt Disney World and was a lifeguard for Disney at Typhoon Lagoon.

Brian Harbin: Oh, wow!

CarrieAnn Gaines: But yeah, swimming was really my thing.

Brian Harbin: And were you lifting a lot of weights then too, or mainly just for swimming?

CarrieAnn Gaines: No, really, I wasn't lifting a lot of weights. Again, one of the big principles that my dad had was basically functional exercise. Learn how to move your own body. Learn how to do pull-ups and push-ups and sit-ups and squats and just move your own body around, especially as a young kid. When I got a little bit older is when, you know, we started to add a little bit more weight and he kind of taught me more about the principles of lifting weights and exercise and things like that.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. Yeah, it's funny too, because I remember as a kid it was like I would do push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups, you know what I mean? I always have like the push-up bars around and, you know, we have a, you know, even a pull-up bar that we have that the kids will just walk by. I think it is, you know, very important for kids to know that, you know, the push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups are something you can always do anytime, anywhere.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Without a doubt. And, you know, again, throughout my life, fitness and wellness, and this has always been my passion and my career. And so not only did I also work with young kids while I was working with the Navy and the Marine Corps and teaching them things like this and, and important things about nutrition and things like that, but I also working on a Navy base, I had retirees coming in. And the retirees also, you know, wanted to stay healthy. They wanted to stay fit. 

And so, you really kind of have to go back to those core principles and say, you know what, you need to learn how to move your own body. Things like being able to get out of a car by yourself or be able to get out of a seated chair by yourself, you know, as you age as an adult are really important things. So, you know, it really does go back to those core principles.

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. And so, for college, I know you ended up going to SUNY Brockport in New York.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, sir.

Brian Harbin: Tell us about kind of that decision to, you know, go there for college and what led up to that.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, I was really involved. I got involved in radio and television broadcasting. And I thought, you know what, I want to be Barbara Walters. And SUNY Brockport had a great program with communications, and it was only about an hour from my house. So I could actually live away, be independent, and move away from my parents. But it wasn't so far that I couldn't come home if, you know, for vacations and, you know, Christmas break, things like that. So I really enjoyed my time at SUNY Brockport.

Brian Harbin: And what do you feel like kind of looking back over that experience? What did you feel like? Did you feel like you got closer to becoming that next Barbara Walters, or what were some things that you kind of developed over the course of those years there?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, it was interesting learning about communications. And, you know, way back then, it was so different because technology has changed so much since then. But even with creating my business, A Safe Pack, so much of developing, I believe, any business is being able to communicate and being able to share your story or tell people convey an idea or what you're trying to say. 

And I think that my communications background has really helped me in my current business to be able to share my story and talk about the importance of a safe pack and share with other people why I got involved in this and everything else. I think communications was like, like maybe a core value of what helped me. Progress through this to create this business as it is today.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, no, absolutely. Because I mean, even though sales is important, you know, having that, you know, communications background and understanding of it makes a huge difference. And then after you graduated, you know, I knew you spent time… did you go directly to work for the U.S. Navy right after college?

CarrieAnn Gaines: No, actually, I did get into radio and television broadcasting. And I worked at a radio station in Buffalo. I worked with some television stations in Buffalo. And I because at the time, I was still lifting weights, and I was very active in fitness. And while I was working in radio and television broadcasting, and at the same time doing all this fitness, I kind of got to a place where I had to decide, you know, what am I going to do? Am I going to wear, you know, a suit and heels to work every day and get involved in radio and television broadcasting? Or am I going to… completely switch and move into fitness and wellness. 

And I really enjoyed the idea of helping people and teaching people to just be healthy and feel better about themselves. And the aspect of fitness was so much more rewarding for me that I just was automatically drawn to health, fitness, wellness, things like that. And so it was a natural progression. And so I got my certifications and got involved and learned so much more all about fitness and health and wellness and did personal training. And I worked in nutrition at lots of different gyms and clubs and personal training companies. And from there, again, it was a natural progression when I eventually applied to work with the Navy. 

And I was a DOD employee, so I was not in the Navy. I worked for the Navy. And being that the Marine Corps is a department of the Navy, that allowed me to work with both sailors as well as Marines.

Brian Harbin: Okay. And so I guess kind of with the connection with your dad being in the Marines, that was kind of what inspired you to want to work with the U.S. Navy.

CarrieAnn Gaines: And without a doubt, absolutely. I always had a soft place in my heart for the Marines. And so many of them would get out of boot camp and they would come right to St. Mary's and be part of Marine Corps Security Force in St. Mary's. So some of them were very, very young and it was again, so amazing to teach these young men how to eat properly and how to exercise. And you're getting, you know, young men from all over the whole country that had no idea how to eat or how to exercise. 

And to be able to prepare them for being able to be deployed to, say, Afghanistan or something, it was amazing. And to change their bodies and their mindset and how they felt about things. And, you know, the Navy and the Marine Corps both Both of them have similar protocol as to what is expected. And the most important thing with the Navy and the Marine Corps is considered fit to fight. You have to be fit to fight. 

So, it is the most important part of being in the military. And being able to take part in that was amazing. And it was so incredibly rewarding. And to this day, I just still absolutely love all my sailors and my Marines.

Brian Harbin: Well, and, you know, I don't know if I, you know, so it says here that worked with a military community of 15,000 to 25,000 with a $3 million budget. So were these only enlisted people that you're working with or were these, you know, some of their family members too that were part of the fitness program? So these are only, you know, folks that are enlisted?

CarrieAnn Gaines: No, sir. Actually, we had everybody. So it didn't matter if you were an enlisted, if you were an officer, or you were a spouse or a child. We had everybody that was able to come to the base. And actually, Kings Bay was allowed by Big Navy to create a program. It was a pilot program that we actually created, myself and a couple other folks that worked with me, and it was called Family Fitness. And we actually taught spouses and children how to eat better. We had classes on nutrition. We had classes about stretching, lifting weights, things like this, and that is such a huge part of the military family. 

So, when your spouse is deployed, whether it's your husband or your wife, while that person is deployed, it is down to the person that is back at home to, again, create this environment of healthy living and teach these children how to eat healthy and take part in exercise and things like that. So, we had retirees, we had all across the board, which again made it so fun, interesting, and it was a great dynamic.

Brian Harbin: And I'm curious too, like, just, you know, for the sake of myself and for listeners at home, like, you know, what would be kind of a snapshot version of, you know, tools that you would or what you would encourage people to have at home to be able to promote healthy living? I know you mentioned talking about being able to move your body weight around, so you don't necessarily need to go invest in all these expensive equipment, right? Like, what were some basic things, even with diet too, that you'd really tried to, you know, impart upon them?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, from the fitness perspective, trying to convey to all of these folks that the biggest thing was just move, you know, not being just sedentary. So even if, you know, you are… you take a 15-minute walk or something like that is a great start. But we would also encourage people to do anything that was just their own weight-bearing. So just squat down and stand up, or a push-up, or again, find a bar. Or if you take your children to the playground and there's a monkey bar, you know, try and pull up. Or sit-ups, but basic things like that. We were just really trying to encourage people to move. 

And the same thing was with the retirees. We would see retirees come in and they would be in the same situation. And I would say to them, you know what, let's just start out with a walk. And then I'm going to have you just squat down and stand back up, moving your body around. That is the most important thing. And being able to just move your own body weight, is really a baseline for being able to progress to another level. And so, we would tell people, it doesn't matter if you don't have any equipment at all, moving your own body weight is more than sufficient.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. What a unique experience being able to work on the base like that and all the different people you interacted with. And so, I know you spent 5 years with them. And then, post-Navy, tell us a little bit about You know, after that and then leading up to kind of the inception of Safe Pack?

CarrieAnn Gaines: So, my husband was in the Air Force and he lived in Germany and I was at… in St. Mary's at the submarine base.

Brian Harbin: So, you met him while you're working with the Navy?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, sir. We met actually at a conference in San Antonio, Texas, and we were at the Athletic Business Conference in Texas and we met and I was single. I had no kids. He was single, had no kids. And I said, you know, I'm here in St. Mary's, Georgia, you know, technically, I could be anywhere all over the world. What am I doing in St. Mary's? And so he was actually at Ramstein in Germany. And I said to him, you know, that would be really kind of cool if I could get a job overseas rather than, you know, be in St. Mary's. 

So he and I continued to email back and forth. And he said, you know, if the Air Force, anything comes up, I'll let you know. And so I started really looking for different jobs with the Navy that were overseas. And about 4 months, 5 months later, there were a couple of jobs that opened. One was in Singapore, one was in Bahrain, and then one was in Naples, Italy. And so by this time, I thought, you know, I really kind of like this, this Air Force officer. And so, you know, Naples, Italy is a lot closer to Germany than Singapore, Bahrain. 

So anyways, I interviewed. I ended up getting the job in Italy. So I moved to Naples, Italy. And he was in Germany, and we started dating and kind of flying back and forth between Germany and Italy and all these other countries every couple of weeks. He'd say, you know, fly to Paris, I'll pick you up and we'll spend the weekend. And, you know, travel is so inexpensive in Europe. So, so we did that for a year, and it was amazing. And I was training sailors and Marines in Italy, and he was obviously working, you know, as a lieutenant colonel in…

Brian Harbin: Italy?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Germany. And after the year, he… the Air Force said he was PCSing to the Pentagon. So, he said, I have to move. And at this point, I was 39 years old. He was 40 years old. So, it's not like we're kids. And he's like, you know, what are we going to do? I mean, are we going to continue like this dating thing? And we just came to the realization that we wanted to be married, we wanted to have kids, and we were both all in. So, when it came time for him to PCS back to the States, I left my job and he and I moved back to the States. We got married and we had our first baby.

Brian Harbin: Wow! And where were you guys? Were y'all in D.C. at the time or when did y'all move to Jacksonville?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, we were actually living in Virginia and he would take the Metro into the Pentagon. Then he was at Crystal City and then we eventually moved across the river to Andrews Air Force Base. And we lived at Andrews Air Force Base for almost 2 years. And then Alex was in charge of Armed Forces Entertainment. So he would have to go… one of the trips he had, I think my son was around a year old. And one of the trips that Alex had, he had to escort the WWE wrestlers from the States over to Bahrain. And then they would take a helicopter onto an aircraft carrier, and they'd entertain all of the troops. 

So Alex was gone a couple of weeks or so, maybe, and we'd FaceTime. Well, my son, who was a year, he just was having a fit FaceTiming with his dad on the computer. And Alex, as a dad at that point, 41, 42, he was like, I can't be away from this little guy. And so it was at that point, my husband had already done 20 years. 

So, that's when we made the decision to go ahead and retire. And so, we retired. And then, it was after that that we kind of moved around. And my husband, as he said, once he retired, it was like, what do I want to be when I grow up? Is kind of where he got to.

Brian Harbin: That's right.

CarrieAnn Gaines: You know, and even he had said, you know, I've never had a job interview. I've never had a resume or anything like that. And so, it was at that point we of, you know, he tried a couple of different jobs and whatnot, and we moved a few times. But essentially, I really wanted to get back to this area. And then I had said, you know, I really loved this area, and that's what brought us here to Jacksonville and St. Augustine.

Brian Harbin: And I love, you know, you mentioned this before the show, but I'd love to hear your story again on the inception of A Safe Pack and kind of where it came from. So tell us about You know, the idea of y'all's business.

CarrieAnn Gaines: So while we were kind of trying to figure out what my husband wanted to be when he grew up, my oldest son, who now is 14, he was approximately 2, I think, when the Sandy Hook shooting happened in Connecticut. And I think not just myself, I think everybody across the world was just completely shook at the idea of having someone come in to an elementary school and commit such a heinous crime. 

And, you know, again, with a 2-year-old baby, I just couldn't wrap my head around this. And again, it was devastating. But after that, I thought maybe that's an isolated incident, you know, this crazy person. But then we started seeing it more and more. And then there was Columbine. And then again, there were so many more shootings in schools. And I said to my husband, you know, this is horrible. 

Then, by that time, I had 2 children. I had my second son, and they were both in elementary school. And that's when the Parkland shooting happened down here in Florida. And when that happened, it really hit home because, again, I had 2 children in elementary school. Parkland is just up the highway from us. 

And I said to my husband, you know, there's got to be something we can do. It breaks my heart when I walk these happy, excited, joyful kids that are skipping along out to the bus stop. I put them on the bus and they're so excited to go to school and hug their teachers and they wave goodbye. And for me to wave goodbye and just hope that all the safeguards are in place at their school if there was an active shooter, that they would be okay. 

And so I said to my husband, I've got to do something more than nothing. I can't just cross my fingers, say my prayers, and hope for the best. So I said to him, you know, what can we do? How can we keep these kids safe? So we started talking back and forth, and I thought, you know, obviously working with the military, I said, you know, I can't send my kindergarten off to school in full Kevlar. So what can we do? And so the idea that every child has a backpack, I thought, well, maybe we could do something with the backpack. 

And so not really having known too much about body armor, I thought maybe we could put something like that in the backpack. And this was how this whole thing kind of developed. And I started doing research and calling and research. I mean, trying to figure out all the dynamics of all of this. And I couldn't believe how much was involved in the idea. 

And I thought if we could put something that is bulletproof into the laptop compartment of a backpack, again, it's something. It's not a foolproof guaranteed solution, but I felt as a mother sending my children off to school, something was better than nothing.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And, you know, what I appreciate about that, you know, is just you took that feeling of hopeless, you know, helplessness essentially of, like you said, sending your kid off to school with, you know, not really being able to do much about it into, you know, finding a problem that you could help solve and obviously help a ton of other people along the way. 

And so what about… I mean, so once you kind of figure out the, you know, the concept of, okay, let's use the backpack, let's use the laptop, you know, slide in, but then you have to get you know, the Kevlar. So how did you find the right products? What was the product development like?

CarrieAnn Gaines: So that was an extremely arduous process because the way that body armor is created, I guess you can say not all body armor is created equal, kind of. So there are different levels of body armor. So there is a level which is 3A, which the government has labeled as a 3A, and a 3A body armor only stops a handgun round. Whereas when you get into, say, a 3 or a 3+, now we're talking about a rifle round. So a 3A is much less expensive to make. But, you know, saying again to my husband and myself, you know, do you want to say to parents, you can buy a slightly less expensive body armor to protect your child, but, you know, if someone comes in with a rifle, it doesn't do any good. 

So how much do you love your child? So I said, I'm not doing that. I said, you know what? The majority of these shootings are done with a rifle. So I want to make sure that this plate that we sell is going to stop a rifle round. And so again, reaching out to so many different companies. I also know that there's a lot of schools that have metal detectors. So I knew that it couldn't be metal because I needed them to be able to go through a metal detector. Again, children. I wanted to make sure that it was light enough for kids to have in their backpack. And the smallest plate that we make, which is the 10 by 12, is only 3 pounds. 

And so, at the time, my little first-grade kid, he's a little chubby guy. I was like, his lunch probably weighs probably 3 pounds as much as this plate. So, I thought I have to make sure that it's light. And then, first and foremost, again, because my husband and I worked with the military and we have so much pride in living in America, we wanted to make sure it was American-made. 

So, with that, we found a company in California that would manufacture this plate that we really liked. And the company is called Visum. And so, they manufacture the plate, which is now a Safe Pack.

Brian Harbin: And are they all produced and shipped from there, or do you have the shipping goes out somewhere else?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yeah, so again, learning a lot about… there's, there, there's laws for every different state which pertain to body armor, and things over the, you know, past several years have changed quite a bit. But there were some states that you couldn't even ship body armor to those states. So we had to learn all these rules and regulations. And even with that said, we had to learn about the liability as a company that's selling body armor. 

And so with that and working in accord with Visum, we had to make sure that Visum would dropship these plates because they are inspected by the Department of Justice and that would not be valid if it went through a third person. So, VISM manufactures the plate and then they drop it directly to the customer to make sure that everything and all the liabilities are all in place to our customers.

Brian Harbin: Interesting! So, and then a big part of your job is obviously just to, you know, get the word out and drive sales. So, how did you guys, you know, start marketing and get the idea and concept out there? Where did you kind of start in terms of, you know, putting it in front of people?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, that was also a problem. I think most everybody can agree that when you say the 2 words child body armor put together, it makes people cringe. It's a horrible concept. It's something that no one ever imagined in their wildest dreams that we would ever say. You know, we know that body armor is a vital part of combat and military. Things like that. 

But the idea of sending your children to school with body armor is really a tough pill to swallow. And I think that trying to get parents to take that step through that threshold and say, okay, I am gonna actually do this. It's tough. So we had to figure out a way to soften the concept and relate more to children, not so much the adults. 

So with that said, we created a mascot and our mascot is a turtle and his name is Tank, America's Super Turtle. And so Tank is a little animated turtle. And on our website, you can see Tank, the little animated turtle, and he comes out and says to the children, you know, my name is Tank and I have a shell and my shell is what keeps me safe. And when I'm scared, I make sure I have my shell and I pull my arms and my legs and my head in. And that's what keeps me safe. And this quirky little turtle was our mascot, which made him so very relatable to everyone. 

And, again, before the show I had mentioned that, you know, I've done public speaking to, you know, so many different, large organizations about this product. And sitting in front of, you know, so many businessmen and public figures, and when you talk about BodyArmor, again, it just gives that feeling of unease. 

And when everyone sees this little turtle and hears him talk about his shell and what keeps him safe, it lightens the mood and it changes the whole feeling of exactly what we're talking about, that this is a safeguard for your children. And it's not military. Kevlar, things that, you know, that you don't want to think about. This is just a safeguard for our children in the event of an active shooter.

Brian Harbin: I'm curious too, like in the brainstorming phase, like what was kind of the inception of Tank and using a turtle? I mean, that's… it's a very creative and, you know, like you said, it paints a totally different picture in your mind. But how did that come about?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Wow! Listen, we had a large team of people that came together and, you know, again, it was tough to kind of figure out something. And one of the people on the team said, a turtle has a shell that keeps them safe. And again, it was just people coming together and sharing ideas and concepts and, what do we think about this and that? And it just kind of took off from there. And again, Tank, America's Super Turtle, turned into a fun, goofy, silly, relatable, animated little character that kids as well as adults could relate to and understand what he was saying.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And we were talking earlier too about just the idea of a car seat, right? Like, you know, people don't cringe when they see a car seat. They think, oh, that's something you got to have at a baby shower, right? Because you're going to need it. Where it's the same kind of mentality, you kind of have to get to that point of like, you're not necessarily promoting, oh, you're going to get in a car wreck and you need to protect your baby. It's more of like, hey, this is just something to help safeguard your child. 

So you're kind of helping bake that into the way that people think about, you know, just general safety and… but breaking through that threshold. It's not easy. And so where did you feel like… was that kind of a tipping point for you guys in terms of your marketing where you started getting different, better feedback, or where do you feel like things really started to take off for the business?

CarrieAnn Gaines: It was definitely after we created Tank that we really got some traction because again, it lightened the conversation about children in body armor. Once people saw Tank and understood, like you said, You don't buy a car seat because you anticipate being in a car accident. You do it because you want to make sure that your child has the best outcome if by chance something like that happens. And so that was really kind of where we went with this whole thing as well. Like, you're just doing your due diligence by saying, you know what? We just as soon do something rather than nothing. 

And so, by putting this safeguard in place, it will give my child more of a chance of survival than absolutely giving them nothing. So, that's really kind of where we went with that.

Brian Harbin: And was it a lot of online marketing? Were you guys going to trade shows or just going to different schools?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, we actually went to trade shows and we went to different schools. And I mean, we tried everything. And the part that was really kind of discouraging, to be honest, was there were people that tried to make this a political conversation. And there were people online that would send in feedback and things. I would get messages and things that if there are no guns in this country….

Brian Harbin: Oh, I got you.

CarrieAnn Gaines: You don't need body armor.

Brian Harbin: Yeah.

CarrieAnn Gaines: And so it was horrible to think that people…

Brian Harbin: And then you guys kind of get stuck in the middle of that conversation.

CarrieAnn Gaines: That's exactly right. And I said, this has got nothing to do with politics. And, you know, I was very forthright about the fact, whether you sit on the right or the left, that has absolutely nothing to do with this because all the bureaucrats up in DC and trickling all down, they are gonna go back and forth about this topic. 

But at the end of the day, I'm still walking my kids out to their bus stop and I'm gonna put these kids on the bus and they're gonna wave goodbye to mama and blow me a kiss and be so excited to go off to school. And so, in the meantime, whether guns are legal or they're not, or there's laws passed or changed or anything else, I know that today my kids got on the bus this morning and that's the only thing that matters to me. 

So, I'm doing what I have to do every day and whatever goes on outside of that has absolutely nothing to do with me. I want to make sure that every child comes home safe.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, and you know the reality is regardless of whatever way that goes, it's still a potential risk regardless, right? Whether they're legal or not, there's still the potential risk is always going to be there.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Without a doubt. Absolutely.

Brian Harbin: And I did watch your video when you were on Kathy Ireland Show and promoting. How did that come about? Was that something where you know they kind of caught wind of it and they reached out to you, or tell us about that experience?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yeah, it was very interesting. Actually, Shark Tank had reached out first. And Shark Tank said, this is a great concept. You know, we love it. And so many of the Sharks are very passionate about children's products.

And so they said, we'd love to have you come to Shark Tank. Well, just by chance, this ended up happening right before COVID. So once COVID hit, they shut down all production. There was no more Shark Tank. That was the end of that. And as we all know, kids weren't going to school. I mean, and, you know, the country had a dynamic shift as far as school and business and everything else as we now know it, you know, changed dramatically. 

So after that happened, it was Kathy Ireland's folks that one of the women that worked closely with Kathy Ireland said that their production studio is down south, very close to Parkland. And so they had some people in her production company that said, you know, we had, you know, sons or daughters or grandkids or whatever that actually went to Parkland during the Parkland shooting. And they said, you know, this is such a really interesting concept. We'd really be interested in talking to you about this. And, you know, and Kathy herself has children and grandchildren and would be really interested and having a conversation about a Safe Pack. So, that's really how we ended up down there.

Brian Harbin: And I'm guessing that probably helped with just getting the brand name out. And do you guys advertise much outside the United States as well or in other countries?

CarrieAnn Gaines: It really is interesting too. Again, this goes back to all these laws. So, every… there's so many laws that are very strict. So, again, since the conception in 2018 of a Safe Pack till now, a lot of the laws have changed. However, you cannot sell body armor outside of the United States. 

So I have had different companies outside the country who've reached out. But yeah, it's illegal to sell, ship, or anything body armor outside the country. So we just are really focused on, you know, here in the United States and making sure that, you know, everyone here in the States has access to a Safe Pack.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And where do you feel like kind of that next threshold of like awareness comes for people? Anything specific you feel like you guys are working on to kind of, you know, get the message out, you know, further and deeper at this point?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Or… You know, again, a lot of it, as sad as it sounds, you know, people aren't looking for a solution to something that they don't know that there's a problem. So, as sad as it is, after the Uvalde shooting, we had so many people that were like, what can I do? What can I do to keep my children safe? And again, sadly enough, that is what brings awareness to products to help keep your child safe during a school shooting. 

And you know, it's so hard being a business owner and you have… I had folks in Uvalde. I had one woman that messaged me and said her husband was a long-distance trucker and she had 3 kids in the school in Uvalde. And she said, you know, I didn't… my husband was out of state. I didn't know if my children were going to live or die. And she said, you know, I just started looking for something, again, something more than nothing moving forward that I could do to help the idea that my children would come out of something like this healthy and happy. 

And so again, with this said, we continue to market. And, you know, we're sending out information all the time to different schools and things like this. And again, safety awareness, you know, we're very active as far as, you know, teaching schools and even law enforcement about this concept. So another interesting thing is, you know, after the Parkland shooting, the governor signed the Marjory Stoneman Douglas Act. And what that is, is every county has to have an emergency plan as to how to handle an active shooter. 

And so, it was a wonderful concept except over the summer, every county only had, say, two months to create this program, and so maybe Clay County was different than Duval County or different than Pinellas County. And so you have every county in all of Florida that had to create this emergency plan. 

And so right now, I think that the government is really kind of doing its best to kind of get all on the same page rather than that after Parkland knee-jerk reaction, you know, we've gotta fix this and take care of it. Now everybody's saying we have to have a unified plan as to how to be prepared and how to react to things like this. And again, you know, we've all seen what happened in Uvalde. And it was a disaster. It was a complete mess. And so with that said, I think that law enforcement and our government and everybody and superintendents and school systems, everybody took that as, you know what, we need to do a better job. And so let's all figure out the best way to handle these types of situations to make sure that we don't have a result like what we ended up with in Uvalde.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And I think too, it's like one of those things where for a lot of people, like if it's out of sight, out of mind until it hits close to home. And, you know, there was the shooting in Chattahoochee High School in Georgia. And actually, interesting enough, my youth counselor when I was growing up in Atlanta, David Phoenix was one of the 2 teachers that went into the hallway and ended up taking a bullet and survived it. And, but yeah, it's one of those things that until you know of something that's hit close to home or experienced it, it's almost like you don't want to think about it. And that's kind of how you deal with it. But at the same time, there's the reality of the fact that, you know, it's better to be prepared than not.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, and that's exactly it. And again, you know, this whole country has done such a great job of safeguarding children with, again, you know, everybody, you can't leave the hospital with your baby unless you have a car seat. And, you know, there's, there's, you know, in cribs, they've said, you know, there's different things that you can do when you put your baby in a crib to help prevent SIDS. 

And, you know, all these different things that, you know, everyone has created to keep our children safe. But this is, you know, when I say fairly a new concept, it really is. Like 20 years ago, you would say, you know, an active shooter. I mean, that's a crazy concept. Who would go into a school and shoot children? 

And now the sad reality of it is, is that everybody knows what that is. But like you said, we'd like to be able to say, well, maybe it was because of this or that type of community or this stigma or that, but nobody wants to say, oh, well, that'll happen at our school. Everybody says that would never happen at our school. We've got a very safe community and we have all these rules and regulations and everything in place and that wouldn't happen at our school. And it's interesting because especially with a Safe Pack looking at every one of these and tracking every one of these, you can go back beyond Sandy Hook and you can say every single school said it would never happen to us. Never. 

And including Parkland, they said, we've got things in place and we've got mental counselors for kids. And, you know, we're streamlining how to deal with problem children or different kids, and police work so closely with schools to make sure that these kids are flagged or whatever, to make sure that things like this don't happen. But the reality is, we all know things and people and situations fall through the cracks, and that's how you end up with situations like this.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And, you know, one thing I would add to that too, because, you know, just from our involvement with schools and, and, you know, even preschools for that matter, it's like you see that, you know, a lot of schools nowadays, they, you know, wanna put up like the wrought iron fence, right? So you have the key code access. A lot of 'em now either have a part-time or full-time, either officer or hired full-time agents. 

So, and parents are putting pressure on the schools a lot of times, which are self-funded. to come up with those additional costs. At the same time, whether you get that or not, this is a way for parents to kind of, you know, take control of your own situation and at least be prepared regardless of what your school can or can't do and/or relying… you know, there's always going to be glitches even if you have all those fancy systems and a cop. I mean, anything can happen. So it is a way for people to kind of take things into their own hands. And so how does the… for our listeners, I guess, how do the packages work? Do you buy just one at a time or do they come?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, each plate is just sold one on its own. There's an 11 by 14, which is the size of an actual adult plate, which is basically the exact same thing that law enforcement has. As a matter of fact, I've sold many plates to law enforcement because it is so light. It's made of polyethylene, which is basically plastic, goes through a metal detector. And so many law enforcement say, you know, my law enforcement agency is still, you know, with these old-school metal plates that are hot and they're heavy and all of this. 

So, yes, there's, again, there's a 10 by 12 and an 11 by 14. They're sold individually. And it really depends on the size of your child, obviously. You know, if your child is small in elementary school, they're going to be carrying a small backpack. And so the 10 by 12 slides in there. And I say of my kids, you know, and everybody else that buys a Safe Pack. You know, you have a conversation with your kids, you talk to them about it, you put it in there, and you say to them, you know what, just forget about it. And you know that if you need it, you put your backpack on. And I've had conversations with all their teachers and said, this is the situation, you know, during an active shooter drill, they're going to put their backpack on. And the teachers were, you know, very accepting of the whole thing. But yeah, they're sold individually. And again, it all depends on the size of your children, whether they're small or large. So we just sell the 2 different sizes.

Brian Harbin: Gotcha. And, you know, your husband and you both run it together, right? So it's a family business. What's kind of that dynamic? Like, what's your focus? What's his focus? And how is that working together?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, being married to an Air Force officer, he would like to be the guy in charge. But being the mom, I'm the momager, I guess. So, but we work very closely together and he's very analytical and I'm kind of think out the box and again, more related to the children and things like that. But we work great together, bouncing ideas off of each other and coming up with different concepts and, you know, different marketing strategies and that kind of thing. 

And it's been really nice for us to be able to work together. And I'll be honest, we love the feedback from our kids because even our kids have said, you know, I've told my friends that, you know, this is what I have. And there's other children that say, well, that's really, you know, kind of cool. So even the feedback from the kids and again, my kids love Tank, this turtle. They think he's such a cute, silly little quirky animated guy. So it's the whole concept of this with our entire family has really been an interesting and fun dynamic.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, no, it is. And it's funny because my wife and I, you know, I've got a separate business other than our camps and everything that we do over the summer, but we do work together over the summer. And it's funny because our personalities are very different. But one of the things, like with camp coming up, we're like, all right, we need to go to lunch somewhere separate away from the house and talk about work stuff. It's, you know, a lot of times you do have to kind of compartmentalize and, you know, because there's so many other things to talk about life. But it's like, okay, we're gonna sit down and talk about business at this point. And, you know.

CarrieAnn Gaines: For sure. 

Brian Harbin: But yeah, it's, it's a fun dynamic. And I think, you know, too, it's great for your kids to see that and see that it's, you know, something they're a part of as well. And, yeah, kind of on that note, you know, having 2 boys, you know, 12 and 14, I guess, what are some principles obviously that you guys want to, you know, instill in them? And, and how do you feel like you're doing that?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, I think it goes back to both my husband and I when we were young. You know, we want our kids to be informed. We want them to understand the concept of what we're doing and everything else. I mean, we're very forthcoming with our children about anything with about active shooters. And, you know, especially this day and age, politics plays such a huge role. And we wouldn't think that it does. But even in the elementary school, there is a lot of chatter about politics with young children. 

And I think that kids you know, pick up little bits and pieces and snippets from their parents and may share those at school. And my husband and I, again, are very open to having conversations with the kids about, again, lots of different interesting political conversations. And, you know, we watch the news together. And in the mornings when the kids are getting ready to go to school, I'll say, you know, let's turn on the news. Let's find out what's going on in the world today. And so it really is interesting. 

And so I love for them to develop their own opinion and have an opinion and ask questions to me, you know, hey, Mama, why is this? Or, what does that mean? Or, you know, who is this? Or what's going on in this part of the world? So for us, that's a huge part of what we're really focused on with our kids is, again, be inquisitive, ask those questions. But be informed. That's the biggest thing is be informed. And if you're going to say something, make sure that you have some sort of justification behind it. Don't just hear your friend and then say, oh, you know, this is the way things are or should be, whatever. But make an educated statement so that you can stand behind the things that you say and the principles that you have. 

And again, you know, going back to when I was very small, my dad always said, say what you mean and mean what you say. Be humble, be kind, be generous, you know, treat other people right. And something that I think a lot of people, you know, kind of get lost in is the Golden Rule. Nobody talks about the Golden Rule anymore of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yeah, treat people nicely if you want to be treated. 

And so, I think, again, my husband and I, fortunately enough, having children much later in our age, you know, I think that he and I really hang on to that concept so much more than maybe young parents. We want our kids to be just good people. We want them to be happy. We want them to be good people, treat other people well, and, you know, have a nice, happy life, really. I mean, what more can you ask for for your kids?

Brian Harbin: No, I love that so much. And like you said, you're just trying to raise good people at the end of the day. And, you know, I, I really like what you said too about the news because, you know, I look back, one of the most triggering noises for me to hear now is the clock on 60 Minutes. Because when I was a kid, you know, we'd be one, you know, we'd have one TV to watch and it would come on. 

And as soon as that clock started ticking, I need to get outta this living room. My dad's like, nope, you're gonna sit here and you're gonna watch 60 minutes. And of course, to me, it's like I didn't understand anything that was going on.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Right.

Brian Harbin: And, you know, my dad listened to a lot of talk radio, a lot of Neil Boortz back in the day. And to me, I didn't really follow it. It was kind of boring. At the same time, it did instill like the same… he would say the same thing. Let's find out what's going on in the world today. And it kind of instills in you that mentality of like having an awareness of other things that are going on to help you create your own informed decision. And I think young kids seeing that example that you set is very tremendous.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Absolutely. No doubt. I too listened to a lot of talk radio. I spent many, many hours listening to Rush Limbaugh and again, 60 minutes and all these different shows. My dad was very well-informed and wanted both my brother and I to be very knowledgeable. And again, as a prior Marine, he would say, if you don't like something or you have an opinion about something, write a letter. His big thing was send a letter. You can write a letter to the president or to the governor, or you can send a letter to the mayor if you need to. These days, obviously, we're sending emails, but it was the same thing. 

And the other thing that every evening my husband and I, we'd sit and watch the news and I have to laugh. You know, as a teenager, I always had to be home at 11 o'clock, even as a senior in high school. And my dad said, when the people on the news say, do you know where your children are? At 11 o'clock, I had to be in that door. And again, the same thing, you know, when that clock strikes 11, it was, do you know where your children are? And I thought, oh, I know where I am every night at 11 o'clock. That's for sure. But it does, it's so reminiscent of your childhood.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and, and the last question we always like to ask our guests is about the Grit Creed. You know, these are 12 principles, you know, kind of along the same lens that we've been talking about with, you know, just instilling those, you know, foundational, principles. Which one do you think probably resonates most to you and why?

CarrieAnn Gaines: Well, I'll be honest, you know, there's several of them. I think that there's so many parts of the Grit Creed that are amazing, but I will follow through with what I say I will do. That's a huge one for me. Again, like I said, my dad was always a say what you mean and mean what you say kind of person. And if you decide you're going to do something, whether it's you're going to join a sports team or you're going to tackle this problem or something, follow through with it. Don't give up. Stick to your morals and your values and ride it out and make sure that you see to the very end, you know, what you're working on. 

And also, as the wife of an Air Force officer, integrity first. And so, my husband also, you know, that was one of the things when he and I had talked about this podcast and we were talking about the Grit Creed and, you know, all these essential parts of it. And that's what he said. That was one of the things that he said. He said, integrity first, you know. There's a lot of things that, you know, you can buy or you can create or you can, you know, put on. 

But integrity is something that is such a very important virtue that is essential to whether you're an adult or you're a child. But integrity is so very important just as a Just as a human, if you don't have integrity, you really don't have anything that you can pass along or that people will really appreciate as a person. So, that's really… I think it's both of those two that really stuck out for us.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. So, just following through with what you say you're going to do and integrity first. Well, Carrie, I have really enjoyed getting to talk to you. You got a great energy. I love, you know, the concept that you guys took, you know, a problem that people have and you created a solution, you know, for people and in a, in a healthy, fun way, with, you know, Tank and hearing his story. 

And so, you know, and just your ties to the military and, and all that you've done there. And so just really appreciate you coming in today. And, and, yeah, so check out A Safe, I guess, where, where is the best place for them to just get more information on you guys? I don't know if you do, if you kind of promote it mainly through your site or…

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, through the website. It's safepack.com. And pretty much anything you need to know is on there. It tells you rules and regulations from state to state. It… you can see Tank, our little turtle. It shows you all the testing that we have done. We've done extensive testing with several different entities. I personally have also tested this product myself because I was not going to put my children in this without knowing that it would do the trick. So we've got lots of videos, and again, news outlets have come to us. We've had different conversations with several different news outlets, and that's all on the website as well.

Brian Harbin: So safepack.com.

CarrieAnn Gaines: Yes, sir. Sure.

Brian Harbin: All right, well, thank you guys for tuning in today's episode of the grit.org podcast, and we'll see you guys next time! 

Take care!