Steve Curran - President of Jacksonville Sharks

Steve is the President of the Jacksonville Sharks arena Football team and is one of the founding partners of the team. He helped build the team, come up the name, hire the staff, and is in charge of all day to day operations including ticket sales, marketing and sponsors. We get a unique perspective of what it takes to start and run a sports team and his journey on what led up to helping prepare him to run the organization. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/3vJfcZ8yMFo

Brian Harbin: Well, hello, my name is Brian Harbin. Welcome to today's episode of the Grit.org podcast! Excited to have Steve Curran here with us today. So welcome, Steve!

Steve Curran: Thank you so much, Brian! Appreciate you having us!

Brian Harbin: Yes, from the Jacksonville Sharks. So Steve is one of the founding partners of the Jacksonville Sharks arena football team. He's been with them since 2009, and they've achieved Franchise of the Year and have won Best Fans 5 times. He helped build the team, come up with the name, design the field, hire the staff, and create uniforms and logos, and is now in charge of all the day-to-day operations— ticketing, marketing, and sponsorship. 

So we're going to dive into that here in a second. But first, wanted to give a shout out to today's sponsor, escrow.com. With over $7 billion in protected transactions, escrow.com is the world's most secure online payment method. From automobiles to electronics to business sales and more, escrow.com makes easy to confidently conduct business online. Visit escrow.com today to learn more about how you can achieve trust, security, and certainty with every transaction. 

So, Steve, we always like to start at the beginning. I know you grew up in Huntington Beach, California, so West Coast. Yeah, any, I guess, early, you know, principles, values, that you learned early on? Any specific family members too that kind of helped shape you?

Steve Curran: Very fortunate. I got great family, you know, so it was… Growing up was nice. I'm part of a— my parents were divorced early, so my mom raised me. So I got a lot of love for my mom. She sacrificed a lot. I always start crying when I talk about her. She's a great lady. But she also instilled in me hard work and not taking anything for granted. 

So I've always kind of took that with me as I'm going through anything else and talking to different people and kind of being compassionate, understanding what other people are going through. That's the big thing. And then my dad was— they were still, you know, divorced parents normally fight and bicker and everything else. Both my families were awesome. I think it was because I was such a great kid that they, you know, stayed together and were friendly because of that. 

So there was never animosity. I ended up going with my dad, living with my dad in my last year in high school because I was wanting to play ball and go to Arizona, so I wanted in-state tuition and all the other stuff. But I've been very fortunate. I got a great family all the way down. We used to always get together, all the cousins and nephews and nieces and everything else. So… But, you know, just kind of compassionate and understanding is kind of the stuff that she gave with me.

Brian Harbin: And early on, I guess, I know you got— you were pretty involved in sports. Any early jobs or sports, or tell us about kind of the inception?

Steve Curran: No jobs. I was one of those hangar-oners. I was fortunate enough to be good in all the sports but not great. So I kept wanting to play basketball, was my favorite, so I wanted to keep playing. I got a couple looks from smaller colleges and… I went over, I lived in Arizona and I tried to play and I kept trying to play. 

So I've been into every college in Arizona you can think of, ASU, NAU, U of A, Mesa Community College, South Mountain Community College, East Coast, Eastern, a bunch. But I had a chance, I kind of made the Arizona team and then they fired Snowden and they brought in Lute Olsen and the quality of players went up a little bit and I got kicked to the curb really quick, but wanted to keep playing. So every time I'd go back and try and play ball, I'd drop out of school and then I'd go get a job. 

And I was fortunate enough, I worked in the grocery industry where my dad was a big wheel for a little while, pluses and minuses. I mean, it was great because I got in and got a job, but the bad parts were, you know, you're Jim's son and then you got this because of that. So you had to kind of prove yourself twice as much and people are always looking at you. But never really had plans to get into sports or anything. You know, I was kind of, because I was playing sports, I never really looked at career-wise going growing up. I just kind of— I liked the grocery industry. It was fun. Didn't like that it was every holiday and every weekend. 

And, you know, there's drawbacks, but there's people. I'm a people person most of the time, and it was enjoyable to see new people every day and talk to them. And, you know, while you're working, it was fun to do.

Brian Harbin: And reflecting back on your time with sports, because I know you're big into baseball as well. So looking back on baseball, basketball, what do you feel like, you know, sports taught you as a young man?

Steve Curran: Well, discipline, you know, and it's just in teamwork, you know, you're going, you know, I don't like to use the war analogy, but you're going to war, you know, when you're playing with your teammates, you know, and it's teammates first and everything else. And it's kind of giving up yourself for the greater good sometimes. You know, looking back, I wish I would have stuck with baseball. 

As a left-handed pitcher, I probably would have made $5.8 million and had a 4.6 ERA. But, you know, it was crazy for that. But it's just, you know, there's a special togetherness. I think playing sports kept me out of trouble in school also. You didn't have time to hang with, you know, I won't say the wrong crowd, but different people that might pitch you in some bad situations. I had some friends that happened to. 

So it was nice. Sports gave me discipline, you know, to help with communication skills because you're talking to people, you know, your day-to-day going through, you know, and talking to coaches and how to relate. It's a good thing to go. I recommend it to everybody to do that. Get into sports programs.

Brian Harbin: And what was your specialty like in basketball? Were you like a shooter, defender?

Steve Curran: I was there before we had— I'm an old guy, so I was there before the 3-point line. So I was a— instead of a 6'10" Larry Bird, I was a 6' Larry Bird. Couldn't jump. I could shoot, I could pass, could play pretty deep defense. I was a smarter player than a physical player, you know. I used kind of what I knew about the game to go… But, you know, everybody has a potential that you can go to, and then depending on your physical capabilities, you can lock that out. I mean, I was never going to go into the NBA, you know. I didn't have the speed or that well of shooting skills, and, you know, and at 6 feet, it's a very tough spot. I mean, big ups to the guys that are making it. They're the Stocktons and the Muggsy Bogues and the Nate, the Knicks— I forgot his name, right? But everybody, you know, there's different things to go. But I enjoyed sports. I wouldn't change it for anything. I really enjoyed playing.

Brian Harbin: Any specific teachable moments or, you know, turning points for you that you learned? Any, you know, highlight of a game or anything like that that really stands out that you felt like was a turning point or a big teachable moment for you?

Steve Curran: Well, I guess there's two ways. There's a tournament that I was, you know, all first team all-tournament on, but then when we got back to the high school, the coach pulled me in the locker room, and unfortunately it was a locker room that had the glass so all my teammates could see me knees right now. There are no stars on this team. And I mean, you know, so I learned kind of how not to treat people from that meeting. That was a high and a low at the same time. 

But no, you know, my— I went to a high school that was pretty good in basketball. We were undefeated our freshman year, undefeated our sophomore year. I got pulled up my junior year. Towards the end to go on varsity and sit the bench. And then we finally got a chance to play. But it's just, you know, just learning how to work with others towards a common goal. And that was the part I liked the best about sports.

Brian Harbin: And so how long did you work in the grocery business? And then how did you figure out what was next for you?

Steve Curran: Yeah, I worked in the grocery business for 17 years. And I got to the spot where I was a manager, and then the company was having some things. And it's weird in my life, I've always kind of seen things that were happening. I mean, my dad helped me with this one, but the company just wasn't strong, you know. The grocery market was changing and people were buying and gobbling up companies and go. 

So again, you know, I guess I'm a nepo person because my uncle did me a huge solid. And hired me to go back to California at the time. And I worked for a recycling company, didn't know anything about it, but I was doing some sales and then I was doing warehousing. And that was a huge, huge benefit for me because that opened me up to another thing that helps now is doing the sales. 

So I felt like I got customer service from the grocery side and then doing the recycling stuff, I got some sales experience, which, you know, coming into pro sports is definitely couple skills you need to have to go from there.

Brian Harbin: And so you're in California. Tell us kind of what led to moving to Jacksonville and kind of how you— the inception of the Sharks.

Steve Curran: I got a little burned out. I mean, I think I reached my peak of where I could go, and unless I can get into management, and the company wasn't structured enough where new management was coming in, you know, people had to leave or retire, and it was a young company. And I just thought, there's an opportunity somewhere else to do something. 

And in my high school buddy, Jeff Busche. He was working for the Orlando Predators before in the old AFL, and his brother was a part of the ownership group. And he called me and said, hey, we're looking to open a team in Jacksonville. And I'm like, well, you know, I don't know anything about that. Are we viable financial-wise to do this? I should say we started an apparel company first. And that's how I came out here to Florida. I started running that company and then we had a couple of good years with that. 

Then, like I said, the football opportunity came up to have a brand new franchise in Jacksonville. And, you know, we always wanted to own the Phoenix Suns, but we thought, you know, we love football too. So we gave it a shot, got that together. Jeff did most of the behind the scenes stuff, getting it ready because he had a lot of experience, which is one of the reasons I decided to do that because he was going to do the day-to-days, I was going to do the sales, we're going to both do marketing. 

And I have my best friend, what we're going to work together, which is great. So sounding boards is always nice to have. And we were very fortunate, worked out. I mean, the fans here in Jacksonville, you know, Florida's a football state, they loved it, came out and supported us, and we hit the ground running and haven't looked back.

Brian Harbin: And so this was 2009, so the opportunity to open up essentially a franchise, this came from league, and they were looking for someone that would run point to start in Jacksonville.

Steve Curran: Absolutely. They are looking for qualified people to start franchises. And, you know, Jeff had experience and then recommended me. We came in, it was Jeff and myself, and we brought in Larry Payne as a partner and we just decided to go full blow. Now, the difference with us is a lot of teams is we're regular guys, you know, we're not Jerry Jones with billions of dollars and stuff. So we had to make it work. You know, it was a business first for us. And that's, you know, you see a lot of people now where you got certain owners and it's an ego buy, which is great. If I get that much money, I want to buy a team. 

But that's also why I see a lot of teams fail. You know, they'll take their original business and just, you know, keep an eye on that, have a business plan, everything else. But when they come to a sports team or something exciting, it's fun, it's shiny. You bring your, you know, bring your people in, you fly your planes to the games, you fly people around, and it's great, you know. But to make it successful as a business, you have to treat it as such. And that's a difference for a lot of people.

Brian Harbin: And what were some of those early challenges coming in? Because, you know, obviously the Jags were, you know, doing really well at that point and had a large fan base. What were some of those early challenges, whether it's like locking a facility, you know, did you find that people were kind of football'd out, you know, come January? I mean, what were some of the— what was some of the initial pushback that you guys had.

Steve Curran: We came back as the AFL. The AFL was branded very well. I mean, it was there at one point. They're trying to become the fifth major sport. You know, they had a deal with ESPN. They're about ready to become the minor league system for the NFL itself. But there's a couple franchises where the NFL owners couldn't buy that. 

So a couple teams were opposed to having a minor league team where somebody else owned it instead of, you know, themselves. So that kind of fell apart. But we brought it back. In 2010 as the AFL. The arena was tough. I mean, because they had the Tomcats for a little while and there were some changes that came back through there. So the original lease was difficult and it was very high.

Brian Harbin: Because it's always been at VyStar.

Steve Curran: Well, Tomcats were at the old building and then they tore that down and then built VyStar or whatever it was called before VyStar. So we got in there, we had to prove ourselves. They were very, very excited after the first year because we did so well. Finding practice facilities, finding sponsors, finding ticket holders, getting stuff together. 

There's a lot of different challenges to the team, making sure you're funded right. I mean, a lot of teams come in underfunded and then they have to chop and cut. You can't cut your way to profitability and you just can't, you know, you got to make sure you're giving a quality product to the people. And that's what we try to give our fans. 

So there was a lot of challenges to come up to start, you know, You got to get staff and you got to find right people. You got to stick within a budget. So it was difficult, but it was challenging and it was fun. I mean, I got to admit, it was fun going through it, you know, just the day to day, the excitement of getting a big sponsor and everything else. Shout out to Sea-Bass. I mean, one of our biggest sponsors, they— we wouldn't have been around without them at the time. So, you know, Mark Frisch was awesome.

Brian Harbin: And in terms of like, assembling, you know, a coach and players, is that part— was that part relatively easy in terms of finding players that wanted to keep playing and recruiting them into the system?

Steve Curran: Because like I told you earlier, you know, at the time it was year contracts, so you had to constantly recruit. You had to find players. You know, the best teams are finding, you know, diamonds in the rough, guys that aren't known and finding some quality players. And we've been fortunate to do that. We went back and talked to Orlando and there was one coach there, Les Moss, that, you know, he coached, been assistant forever over there and he just kept getting passed over. You know, and Jeff liked him. I hadn't met him before. I liked him. He was a good guy at the meeting and everything else. I'm like, this is a guy we got to hire because operationally he was awesome. 

I mean, he knew everything. He got it there. He had relationships with players so he could help us recruit. You know, he knew what to do when we're finding practice fields, what we needed, all the equipment and other stuff that we could take that off of our plate and let football operations go to last. And he did awesome. Plus, I knew myself personally that he had such a fire that he wanted to show everybody that they blew it. By not hiring him. And he came out on fire, and we won our division the first year. He won the championship the second year, and left us one of the highest winning percentage coaches in the first 4 years that we had. So we made a good decision there.

Brian Harbin: And yeah, we've had a chance to meet Jason Gibson. I know he's done a great job for you guys the last, you know, what, 7 or 8 years, I think, maybe even longer.

Steve Curran: We had him 3, but I was working on recruiting him for like 4 or 7 years. I mean, I like the guy personally. He did a good job. He was in a small market, but always did a good job, was always playing tough, always played us tough, got to a couple of championship games. And in the community, he's awesome. I mean, so I'm very happy with Coach. We learned the game of changing leagues was a little different because its style of play changed a little bit. So we had to adjust. And that means your players were changed as well. 

So staffing and player-wise, we had to reconfigure some things. First year we didn't figure it out very well and we took it on the chin. People got some payback against us, people that we were whooping before came out and, you know, were happy to get one back on us.

Brian Harbin: Means rule changes in the actual game.

Steve Curran: Yeah, the game changed more. And the original AFL was more pass-first, pass-heavy, pass everything. I mean, if you turned around, you missed 2 scores. And some people loved it and some people were like, look, it's not quite the same as the outdoor game a little bit. You know, all you do is pass and high scores. But we changed back. 

So there's a little more run in this league as well, more defense. You're still getting 50-point games. So exciting. But you're bringing the run in. And while you're still passing, the defense changed. So there's a couple of different nuances where you can't just, you know, throw the ball every play. You can drop linemen into coverage. You can have 8 guys in the coverage. I mean, it's a different thing.

Brian Harbin: But so is there a certain number of times you have to run the ball in the course of the year?

Steve Curran: No, they don't structure it toward what you're going to do. But there's just instances if you can get the alignment that you want and you can get the matchups you want, there's some definite benefits to running the ball to come back, you know, to come back through. Just like the outdoor game, you know, when your line's dominating, you know, you're kind of putting the defense on their heels. Those, and, you know, that gets a little more exciting, and the offense at a better point, you know, where they feel like they've got the advantage.

Brian Harbin: And I know you mentioned too that players kind of have like a one-year contract. Is that kind of from the league, or is that just where you found is most effective to—

Steve Curran: That's a league deal. The players don't get paid a ton of money in our league, you know. We hope we can get them more as they're coming back through, so we give them the option of being free agents every year. So if they want, you know, if like the place they went to, they can go, you know, if they didn't like it. So they can find out between food trades, housing, you know, medical. There's different benefits for each team that they go to. So if I wanted to play with you, I could go to your team each year. So it leaves them open for them. So they're always free agents. So they determine, you know, their future, we'll say.

Brian Harbin: And I know you were a big part in the process for the logo and the team name. How did you guys come up with the Sharks or any—

Steve Curran: Well, it was funny. It was between the Sharks and the Pirates, and I used to have my little shark ring and stuff, and, you know, I was a— I like to consider myself a pool shark, but I'm not. But I mean, I'd consider myself that. So, Jeff and I did that, and I want to say we had a coin toss and I won, and we became the Sharks.

Brian Harbin: Oh wow, it was a coin toss?

Steve Curran: Oh yeah, it was close because St. Augustine Pirates, you know, being down there with everything else, we thought that reflected well. We're also looking at a military thing because of NES Jackson, you know, being through there. So, but we decided on the Sharks and I'm very happy it was the Sharks.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, it's funny because I love during the game you guys have the— it's like a remote control shark that's up in the air, the blimp.

Steve Curran: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: And actually we had one of our kids that wanted one for Christmas one year, and it was hilarious having this, you know, shark flying around. But yeah, I think it's a perfect name for sure. So what about in terms of, early on, were there any kind of tipping points, you know, as operating this business where you felt like you were kind of in the clear in terms of like, okay, this is a viable business model and anything that kind of helped. I know you said the sponsors early helped.

Steve Curran: Yes, early sponsors are great. It's weird. We— because we play in leagues, we have other partners that we deal with. And, you know, our first 4 years, I mean, you know, we thought we're going to have our team playing, we're going to fly around and, you know, we'll be able to do whatever we want to do. And we came back to early real quick because you're only as strong as your weakest link in your league. League, and we had some teams because we were single entity, the form that it was set up, where some teams weren't doing as well and we had some drop out. 

And when they dropped out, we had to pick up their losses, spread them across the league, and then that caused some other teams to drop out. So that's when we first saw that the business model wasn't our favorite to come back through. At a team level, we've never really had any— I won't say any big problems. I mean, there's always day-to-day stuff that you're overcoming and stuff like that. 

But outside influence has always been the thing that's kind of, well, we'll say dragged us down a peg that we've had to come back and bounce back from. You know, when we left the AFL, we kind of saw what was happening and wanted to get out sooner than later. We were going to go to the league we're in now, the Indoor Football League, the IFL. But there wasn't any East Coast teams. So the timing wasn't right. So we started our own league. Well, when you start your own league, you bring some people in that maybe shouldn't have been in the first time. 

And then you got the same problem again. It's who you're playing. We're very fortunate to start getting some good teams in and that went well. And then we just finally said, look, we're going to be what we want to be again. We've got to go to a national league. And the IFL was that. And now we've got a new national TV deal. We're with FanDuel Sports and we're with Yahoo Sports. So national TV is hopefully going to take us to that next level, get us more eyeballs again and get us to where we need to be. 

Brian Harbin: Because there's still obviously revenue opportunities from the TV deals. Absolutely.

Steve Curran: Yeah. Well, that's a big thing. It's, you know, there's sources of revenue, tickets, sponsorships, concessions, apparel, and then you've got league potential to come back in. Before, we didn't have too many league revenue streams. And hopefully this will get us some more. We've got between different advertising and sponsorships at the league level.

Brian Harbin: And I know too, in sales, it's kind of a challenge too, because like, you know, the team winning obviously is a big part in getting— and I know, you know, a lot of times in sales it's like you're not just looking for them to show up one time, you want to get them to come back, right? That's kind of the goal. So what's something that you found that kind of helps move the needle?

Steve Curran: That's the key. I mean, we try to place more on long-term relationships. You know, it's like grabbing a guy for a year is fine. But, you know, we want to make sure that we're invested. It's more like a friendship and a partnership than just a sponsorship or a deal. You know, in the early years, it was more about branding and being associated with, you know, community. Now everybody needs an ROI. Now, I mean, it's changed over the years and the amount of touches you have to do to get people, you know, have doubled and tripled where, you know, used to be able to make 4 calls to get a ticket or you might have to do 10 or 12 now. So you're working 3 times as hard to get the same sales to come back through. 

And then outside, there's so many more things that you're competing against. I mean, you know, how many channels are there now? The streaming, you know, we've got other sports that are doing a good job in town. So everybody's competing for, you know, for that money. And there's some challenges with that. But we try to give more than, you know, overproduce for them on what it is. 

And like I say, become partners. You know, what can we do that maybe across the street they can't do? You know, we can do some things with players. You know, we can do some things with camp. We can do after-the-game autograph sessions on the field, which are fun. You know, we can do more stuff, you know, during the games where it's all about football when the game's going. 

But when there's a break in play, we're trying to have music, we're trying to have our dance team, we're trying to have our mascots, we're trying to have activities and fun games and stuff to people going. So it's always something going on and a fun thing. I mean, it's like football for people ADD, you know, there's just never a dull moment.

Brian Harbin: So yeah. And you guys do a great job too, like you said, kind of in those breaks. I remember even before the game started and, and you guys, you know, recognizing a young child that had been through cancer and beat it. And, you know, even the halftime show, you guys did a showcase of, you know, girls playing flag football and And was that just something that kind of naturally over the course of time that you guys started to integrate and implement, or is that something from early on you guys have done?

Steve Curran: It's stories that come back with different people. We had the dance gal who, Laura, who was a dance team coordinator at the time. They had a story. They brought her, you know, attention to her. And then we got her out to some games that she was doing, some of the dance team. We just had another young gentleman who we did the same for, Leo. And we did some things where he passed and we did a couple of things in remembrance of him and we helped with some fundraisers and stuff. I mean, a lot of stuff we do behind the scenes. We don't need to be patted on the back and stuff for that. 

But there's other things we're trying to get into the community where we will do, you know, junior dance teams and flag football teams and stuff. I mean, our fans love it. They come out and they see 7, 8-year-olds running on the field and they're having a great time running around. And we've had mascot games where Chum and Finn, our mascots, are playing against them.

Brian Harbin: They're tackling.

Steve Curran: They just had a great time. The football camps, you know, just being on the field. There's a lot of times you just can't get back there and you're looking around and they're playing in front of 7,000. You know, it's just, it's a fun experience. Hopefully it's something that they'll remember as they're growing up. Yeah.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. I remember too, as you mentioned it, the dancers, each one of them came out and they had a 6 or 7-year-old girl with them that was all decked out and, you know, Chum coming out in the four-wheeler and the, you know, pyrotechnics and everything. So, now I'm curious too, from kind of the business standpoint of it, I know, you know, you— there's going to be certain games that probably the ticket sales are going to be consistent, right? 

But, you know, as a business owner looking at the season, okay, you might see a game where, you know, there's still a lot of seats available and you want to proactively sell. So typically, is the mentality to call back on, you know, people that have come to a game before, or how would you drive sales in that situation?

Steve Curran: Absolutely. I mean, we want to have people come back. We have deals for people to come back for other games. You know, if you've been to a game, you get $5 off another game coming back out. Our ticket office with David Diana does a great job for us. You know, we've got lists, we cultivate things, we go to different events around town, we try to generate some leads from that. 

We're fortunate that a lot of the seats we have between our season ticket holders, sponsors. We've got a very good base. So some games are early, games are a little slower. I mean, in Jacksonville, you know, the weather comes in a lot of play. Summer's hot, they want to get inside. So we do very well in the summer months from that. We haven't had a ton of spots. Groups are a big way to fix that problem. You know, groups don't care if you're 1-10 or, you know, 10-1. You know, they just want to have a good time. They want to make sure that they get their take their, you know, either their customers or their employees out there and have a good time. It's a successful event for them. So that's a big, a big—

Brian Harbin: And previous groups that you worked with before.

Steve Curran: Absolutely. Well, we hope that, you know, if you go with the group, then maybe you'll come and bring your kids on your own. So all of a sudden you went from a group of 500, now it's a potential for 1,500 people to come if they bring the family and everything else. So it's working. It's being resourceful. It's finding leads, cultivating and getting people out. 

We have some fun theme nights that hopefully will bring some people to the game. We have some giveaways, hopefully bring some people to the game. You know, there's different ways that we try to get with different people. We have appreciation nights. We get back, we have Faith and Family Night. We have some, you know, we've had, you know, First Responders Night. We have some different things to kind of draw some crowds and give them a deal where they come back out. 

We also have what we do with our Vet Tix, where we bring 500 veterans a game to come out, you know, and their families to come out and have a good time. And D***'s Wings helps support us with that endeavor to go through. But, you know, we always want to bring, as many people as we can to the game, and we offer a lot of deals to help some people out where if we are having a slow game— and hopefully we don't have too many of those, we've been fortunate— that helps bring some people out that might not get an opportunity, you know, otherwise.

Brian Harbin: And what about in terms of your interaction with other team owners? Is there any, you know, swapping ideas? Is there much collaboration between owners, or—

Steve Curran: Don't talk to any of those guys.

Brian Harbin: Oh really?

Steve Curran: No, no, I'm just kidding. No, we have, we have meetings. We have two yearly meetings that we come back out there. We have best practices. Yeah, and we'll go back through and say, hey, you know, what's working, what's not working, what are you guys seeing? And we get reviews, you know, every game we'll have a report card that we'll both say, you know, hey, how was our event? You know, did you guys get taken care of? Was there water? Was there towels? You know, were you taken care of your tickets? How did you think our event went? For the owners, the coaches are looking at the game and everything else. But it's like, did you see anything that you liked? Any ways we can improve? 

So we get together with that. You know, we get together and discuss, you know, how you can make each team better as you're going back through. Somebody might have a group event or another event that's great. And, you know, we want to pass it on to other teams that can maybe customize it to their market and still make it a successful event at their team.

Brian Harbin: And I'm sure— have you been to other teams' games where you've kind of taken an idea and you don't necessarily have to say which team it was, but where you've been to another game and like, wow, that's something we can incorporate here?

Steve Curran: Yeah, we've been pretty fortunate that we— I mean, again, you don't know everything no matter how long you've been around. So we pick some things off that. I go— I try to go to a couple games. Most of the time I try to go back to the West Coast. I got family out there, so it's nice when I go to Arizona and my dad, my brother can come to the games and stuff. 

But, yeah, we've got a couple things that we've looked at where they're doing some good things, you know. Everybody has some different philosophies. Sometimes there's teams that say anybody gets on the field, you got to generate revenue from them. 

And then there's other teams that want to get entertainment, and it's just finding out how do you mesh that to give the best experience for the fans. You don't want to make it where it's You know, something that's at halftime show and you're going, why are they doing this? It's— I'll pick on a team. I don't think anybody remember what they did, but they did Zumba one time and they had 100 people doing Zumba. No offense to Zumba, but a lot of the fans, that's not what they want to see. 

So, you know, you got to balance money as opposed to entertainment value as you're going through.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now, for what you do and kind of run the day-to-day operations, would you find that a lot of your work is done like now, kind of in the offseason, getting prepared for the next season? Or like, what's kind of like, what's your focus right now? You guys start in, what is it, a couple of months in March?

Steve Curran: Mid-March.

Brian Harbin: Mid-March. Okay.

Steve Curran: Training camp will open. It's been— we're— even though the season's, you know, March to August with the playoffs and the championship, We're year-round because we're always, you know, we're always trying to generate sponsorships. We're always trying to get season ticket sales. 

And then during the season, you know, we're trying to make sure everything is going well for us. You mentioned if there's short sales, we're trying to get single-game sales, trying to get group sales. We're trying to make sure the halftime acts are good. I mean, we got anywhere from color guard to national anthem singer to quarter breaks. There's always something going on. So there's a lot of spots we have to fill up. We've been very fortunate to have great interns. Some interns have come back and worked for us.

Brian Harbin: But, are they summer interns or are they both?

Steve Curran: You know, they're year-round. We, when we worked with the different colleges around town, you know, Northern Florida Jacksonville University, St. Augustine, Florida, I mean, we've— it's been very interesting. And without them, we'd have a hard time, you know, doing what we do. So we're very fortunate to have those guys here.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And just so we have an idea too, in terms of, how many people are involved, either full-time staff and/or interns, would you say?

Steve Curran: At any given point, we're very short-staffed. It surprised a lot of people. We probably have 10 full-time staffers, and then we've got a couple part-time, and then, we'll have anywhere during the whole season, the whole year, 40 to 80 interns. You know, during the season, we have some fun to help with setup and everything at the game, so we have more during the games. But obviously some of the help from everything from helping to market, to help us find halftime acts, to help us find the color guards, to help us find the national anthem singers, to help us find the halftime participants we're going to do, whether it's the, you know, the junior dance teams or the soccer leagues or the flag football or whatever. 

And then the stuff for the theme nights, you know, if we do Christmas in July, they'll help us get Santa's chair, they'll help us get a train to go around there, they'll help us get whatever themes and stuff together that we need for those. Leis for Hawaiian night, you know, lightsabers for Star Wars night, you know, something just add to the fun of the event. You know, you can't just have Star Wars night and say, you know, play the music and that's it, you know. 

So we have, you know, a good relationship with a group out here that brings a bunch of people dressed as all the cosplay guys, and they're awesome. I mean, it's like, you know, every character you can think of. If you're a Star Wars nut, you'll go, I can't believe, you know, I don't know, I'll like that. But, you know, General Bob Roberts is there and they're going, there's a guy dressed as him. So we're, I like to think we do a good job of bringing the themes and stuff, and hopefully makes it a fun night for the fans.

Brian Harbin: And those 40 to 80 interns, they would be anywhere from like short-term, like a few weeks?

Steve Curran: Yeah, they're all, they're also, you know, they all got to get hours, you know, to qualify for the programs that they're doing. So they'll have anywhere from 40 to 80 hours. You know, they'll come in and they'll work, like I said, to help us find phone numbers. They'll help us find different things to go to, to give us certain spots that, you know, we might not have time to do otherwise. If guys are selling tickets, we might not have time to find, you know, like say a Santa's chair or a red carpet or someplace to, you know, Hawaiian dancers, look up online and find some Hawaiian dancers, fire dancers to bring in, you know, or a musical act. So they really help us by taking some pressure off for the game ops stuff that we can do for them.

Brian Harbin: And then what about too with players? You know, obviously it was a great movie, you know, underdog, that came out about, you know, a guy that played in, you know, through the Arena Football League and made it to the NFL. Like, how does that work in terms of— because I guess they don't really have agents. So if they do make it to the next level, is that something you guys are helping facilitate?

Steve Curran: Oh, they do have agents. I mean, these guys are not just players that are coming from nowhere. I mean, we had 3 Alabama guys last year, a couple of national champions with them. I mean, we've had Florida guys come out. We have Florida State guy. I mean, these are some big, big, big, big school players and stuff. Like most of the time, a lot of times they get stuck behind somebody or they get injured or maybe they're a little out of size depending on the position that they're playing. So that helps out. But no, we've got quality players. That are coming through. They do have agents and the coach does a good job of recruiting. We've got a player personnel guy that helps him with that. And the big key in this league is finding somebody that maybe nobody knows about. 

And like I said before, we had a guy named Woodman and he came back through. Nobody knew him. He ended up being a defensive player and pretty much of the year. And I want to say he was in the MVP race, but he was great. And then he got an opportunity to move up to the next level. Unfortunately, he got hurt, but he— the guy was a freak. And nobody knew him. He just came out of the blue. So it's nice to see..

Brian Harbin: And yeah, I'm sure you guys have had stories like that over the years of players that have come through.

Steve Curran: And we've had a couple of different players that came out of nowhere. We've had guys that were like, you know, Dallas Baker, the touchdown maker, played for Florida, came out and had a great season with us, you know? And like you said, I think that guy you were talking about was Bob Roberts or something like— Oh, no, no, that's not Kurt Warner.

Brian Harbin: Kurt Warner.

Steve Curran: He was— he is a poster child for our program. Our thing and came in there. And a great story, you know, for another grocery guy like me. Yeah, but did a great job. But like we have in our history, and hopefully we can retire his jersey soon, is Aaron Garcia.

Brian Harbin: Yes, he was like the touchdown king, right?

Steve Curran: He was. He's got a football in the Hall of Fame for the most touchdown passes ever, you know. And he played, I'll say, forever. And we're very fortunate. He was another guy that helped us become the team we were because he had such an aim and was such a good player, you know, winning to start off was key for us. And he came back there and made us a winner right away. So we owe a lot to Aaron Garcia for helping us and starting the team and getting rolling there. So it'd be nice to give it back to him.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, he was the first game we ever went to. He was the quarterback. And I remember it was like, you guys scored like 80 points. What in the world is this? Like touchdown after touchdown.

Steve Curran: A lot of high-scoring games were there. He was, as they say, a baller. He was great and a great guy. I mean, it's funny because, when we won the championship 2011, we had a parade at the old landing, and he was the last guy to leave. He was signing autographs, and I know it had to be a long day, but he was signing autographs all day. Or else, like I said, a great guy as well as being a great player.

Brian Harbin: And I know you guys, have a scout that kind of helps, you know, find new talent, and then you guys do open tryouts. Those are typically… when do those…

Steve Curran: Well, we have one towards the end of the year, like one's coming up here in March, and then the other one was like in November, I want to say. So we got a couple different times. Guys are going during the football season, we want them so they're coming off in shape, and then we come back in March before our training camp goes. So it's like, hey, they can come into our camp and we can take a look at them because our camp's only 2 weeks long, don't have a lot of time to evaluate players. So our coaching staff has to be kind of up on who they're thinking, you know, can't miss, you know, because we have a smaller roster, 25 guys on the roster. So not a lot of players if you're missing.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, so I was gonna ask, so you get 25 that are pretty much on the field, and then…. 

Brian Harbin: 25 that are on the team, 21 suit up. 

Steve Curran: 21 suit up, okay.

Steve Curran: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: And then do you have further reserves beyond the 25, or—

Steve Curran: Nope, nope. You have guys, you know, hopefully on your Rolodex that you'll see what's going on if nobody else grabs them. But the 25 is your roster, and that's what you've got. So you can— God forbid, we've had some bad years with injuries, but you have IR spots to put people in.

Brian Harbin: Oh, you do. And so there are people potentially on the waiting list that—

Steve Curran: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And I'm curious too, so you guys are 17 years deep into running this franchise. And where do you see the potential for growth or where are some opportunities you guys see moving forward to continue to grow the brand?

Steve Curran: This is an exciting year for us because like I said, we got the national TV deal to come back up there.— we've got more teams that are coming in. We've got 15 teams now. And in the next year, I don't want to speak out of school, but there's some more teams coming in and we're hoping we can lock in '24. That'll lock up the league with the amount of franchises we're going to have, and that'll help the financial value will be locked in. 

So if you want to buy a team, it's not— there's a franchise fee anymore. I got to go to Brian, I got to go to Andrew, I got to go to somebody and try to buy that team. And they'll set the value for what they want to sell at. Yeah. So that'll be exciting. The, you know, the big goal, obviously, just like it was for the NFL. I mean, that day changed when they got the TV money. I mean, it's crazy money. 

So if we can get some rights fees and TV money, which we hadn't had, that could be a game changer and then really change the value of the franchises. And then with that player pay and everything else as we're growing from what that is, that's exciting.

Brian Harbin: And so there's basically 7 potential franchise openings? It— and how do you determine? Does somebody just come to you and say, okay….

Steve Curran: To get to the 24, we have 15 now.

Brian Harbin: Okay, so it'd be 9 more.

Steve Curran: 24 is the allegedly magic number. Okay.

Brian Harbin: And then, so is it just a matter of somebody coming to League saying, hey, I've got this market? Yeah, as long as it doesn't interfere.

Steve Curran: Look at markets. Yeah, we'll look at markets and, hopefully try to find some qualified owners in there. Now we've had people come up and it's just, you know, we're really doing a better job of vetting potential owners You know, it goes like I said earlier, you know, some guys want to do it and, you know, we had KISS in our league. I mean, the guy's got a ton of money, but they, again, it was the business model doing that. You know, they can't do— and they're awesome for the league too. So shout out to them. 

But, you know, when they're opening their first game and they have their KISS stage show, you know, doing that, which is, I don't know, put a number on it, could be way up, but like $50,000 to do. And they're having the players come down and the risers and the fireworks are going off. You can't do that every game. That's like $400,000 for the season to do that. I mean, that's a lot of revenue you got to make up and get people to come in. 

So you still got to be financially responsible as you're going back through. So you've got to find quality people who are going to want to support it. I mean, it's just like any other business, 3 to 5 years to see how you're going to get out. That's what your business plan is. That's what you're thinking. Nobody thinks they're going to make— well, they hope that they're going to make money the first year, but you got to have a plan to kind of run through what are you going to do if you don't. You know, what's your plan to get you to that 3 to 5 years where most companies fail, you know, to get you through that? 

And that's what people have to think about. And we've really tightened up, like I said, the vetting of the potential owners. And, Todd, who's our commissioner, has done a good job of that. And, you know, the league itself is really watching what it is. Used to be just grab people. Hey, we got 40 teams now. It's like, well, it's not good when they keep dropping out, right? So, you know, we've done a good job of changing that happen.

Brian Harbin: And so, like, hypothetically, you know, somebody wanted to open one in, like, Gainesville or Tallahassee, in case there's a potential franchise owner out there, what, what's typically, like, the startup cost? Does it depend on the market, or how does the price determine the market?

Steve Curran: You know, the franchise fees changing as we get closer to that ultimate number, you know, because as we get to the last couple teams, there'll be a premium to put on it because that'll be the last ones coming in. You know, they've got to have money to secure a lease, which is expensive. They got to buy a field. They got to buy uniforms. They got to have an office. You got to have office equipment. You got to have office staff. 

So I mean, it just depends on how they want to do it and what they've got going. I mean, I don't know. It's hard to say. Every place is different. I mean, you also got to get housing for your players. So New York's housing is going to be a lot more than Iowa's. Right. So it kind of—

Brian Harbin: You gotta have a lot of working capital to have all those things.

Steve Curran: Yeah. You need to have, you need to be able to, you know, self-funding, you know, to make sure you get through. 'Cause if you don't get the sponsorships, you don't get the people in the building. You know, some teams come back in, they think they're automatically gonna fill up the building just because, you know, if you build it, they will come. Well, you still gotta get out there and give them a reason to come for what it is and to see the product and everything else. And there's a lot of people maybe the first year won't want to buy season tickets, but they might want to come to a couple of games to see how you're doing. Then if you do a good job, you can convert them.

Brian Harbin: Right.

Steve Curran: So you've got to plan for that. That's why I say going back to you, you have to treat it as a business and you better have a business model. You better have a business plan to figure out how you're going to get through the points to get you through the first couple of years.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. I imagine the lease agreement would be a, you know, a huge first, you know, obstacle to overcome because I imagine they're going to want a 5-year lease or some type of long-term—

Steve Curran: They want years. They want to be protected because there's other events coming in. The tough part is where you're going. We have a lot of different events in our building, so it's tough for us. I mean—

Brian Harbin: The scheduling and all that.

Steve Curran: Yes, I mean, because there's another sports team and then you got concerts and you got graduations. You got other things that take up time and then it might move you off of dates that you— When we first started, we were very fortunate. We had a lot of dates. It had come back through. There wasn't as many events at the arena, but again, the arena's done a good job and got more events there, which is doing a good job for the city. But it's a little negative for us on that because we lose some key dates that we wanted to have. But excuse me, other places, if you could be the lead person in there, like Arizona's got a new arena where the hockey team pulled out and they're number one tenant. 

So it's like, you know, they got a great deal. Orlando, I cry every time. I used to laugh in the meetings. It's like when they're talking about cost and everything else, I'd be in there going, this is ridiculous. And then when Orlando I said something, I just sat there and shut up. Okay, because their building cost is so much more than ours. Beautiful venue, but if you can't use a lot of stuff they have on there— I mean, I've heard it takes 12 to 14 people to work their jumbotron. Wow. So I'm like, okay, I don't— do I need that many people?

Brian Harbin: Right, right.

Steve Curran: If I don't have it all blinged out with sponsors and stuff, then it's like, just turn half of it off. But yeah, you know, I can't get an intern to run the jumbotron. Exactly. Well, and it's probably a union spot, which I love unions. But, you know, it's just different costs that fluctuate depending on where you're at.

Brian Harbin: And reflecting back over your 17 years, what would you say has been the most rewarding part of being owner for you?

Steve Curran: I think when I first started, I always thought the behind the scenes was the funnest part, you know what I mean? You're kind of coming back there and you see the guys, you're talking to them. But then, you know, you're on the field when the, when, you know, the fans are looking at you, hey, how you doing, you know, that kind stuff. 

But the rewarding thing is, well, our first championship was awesome. I mean, I'll never forget that. That was in 2011. We came back out and we— it was a great game where we went to— had to play in Arizona, and it was going back and forth. There's probably 10 to 12 lead changes in the fourth quarter alone. And Aaron rolled out, it was just one of those slow motion plays. You see he's rolling out and he's kind of going backwards. He's right-handed, so he's going away from You kind of look over and Jerron Harvey's standing over here kind of going, hey, look at me. And you see it, you throw it, and you're just— and it's like slow motion. Oh my God, is this guy going to pick it off? He's going to knock it down. You're waiting, you're waiting, and Jerron catches it. And you're just like— the crowd went from, you know, crazy, I mean, it was just dead silent. So that was awesome. 

Then we stormed the field, and one of my guys pushed me over the dash. At least I tell them I think I fell, but I tell them they punish me. And then, you know, the funniest part was, is that, they held the news— they held, The Johnny Carson Show to do the celebrations. I was sorry, our big thing. And that was Dan, that did that for us. And then, Chris the newscaster actually got Geronimo, ran through the tunnel, got him before he even got on the national TV thing. 

So there's a lot of fun stuff quirky things. But that was probably one of the funnest, one of the funnest things we had. And just going through, I mean, the first game, when you see the first game we ever had, we sold out. It was like there was lines across the thing. Wow. I mean, we had people sitting in the merchandise land there. I don't even think some of them saw the game because unfortunately we didn't anticipate, you know, we weren't cocky and thought, oh, we're gonna sell this out, it's great. We thought, you know, we have a good crowd. And they're standing in line the whole time. 

We were, me and Jeff, were running the back trying to help out. I'm sure we caused more trouble than we were worth, but it was amazing. That was just such a fun night to see that the first time coming through.

Brian Harbin: That is very cool. And I'm curious too, in terms of working with interns and young people, I mean, we had, you know, 35, you know, young counselors that worked with us last summer. I know you have, you know, that and more every single year. So what would be advice to young people that you work with? Any particular qualities, characteristics? Yeah, what advice would you lend towards a high school?

Steve Curran: Brian, I'm the president. I'll deal with interns. You guys can't talk to me till you're 2. Just kidding. It's just learn as much as you can. Be a sponge. I mean, be a sponge. If you can sell, you can work anywhere. So it's how do you figure out some skills that help you do that? Because, you know, in a sports team, you know, specifically, everybody should be selling on there. Everybody has to generate revenue. It's a smaller, you know, smaller team, smaller things on a smaller scale. So everybody has to generate revenue. 

So it's learn, listen, don't be afraid to have some ideas. You know, some of these interns have some great ideas that come out of the blue. It's like, don't be afraid to communicate with the people that you're working with. You know, you are part of the team, you know, and it's like, you know, but the big thing is listen, ask questions.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, absolutely. On the sales part, I mean, I'm with you 100%. Once you learn to sell, everything, you know, gets easier. Doors open. Just, you know, that one-on-one communication and just being able to portray that for a young person. And I'm sure it's a great, you know, phenomenal opportunity for young people that want to get into sports and get a peek behind the curtain and in the life.

Steve Curran: And if there's not a lot of ways to get in, you know, how do you get in? You know, you go to, you know, the baseball— has a baseball trade show, and you'll go to the winter meetings, and they got a chance to go behind the scenes and meet some people. But it's, you know, it's a cattle call kind of thing. And there's some other places where you can go to some different combines and stuff where you can meet people and go. But it's introductions. 

So it's like, don't be afraid to send that letter to somebody, you know, for an opportunity to go. Most teams have intern programs where they're going to come back through and you can see what's going on. That goes for coaches, too. I mean, there's some coach interns. We've had some coaches who say, how do I get into this? You know, and it's like coming in at our team level anywhere, whether it's a high school assistant, it's our league assistant, whatever you got going. 

And then you get an opportunity to try to have somebody speak up for you, get that experience. Experience is the key. You got to get in the door somehow. So if you start as an intern, which is hard for some people, if you got a family and other things, you know, it's hard not to have a paying job. But if you can find some time and learn some stuff, there's a good opportunity to at least get your foot in the door.

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. And, you know, for you kind of looking forward, you know, the next 5, 10 years, you see yourself continuing to just grow the franchise, obviously trying to get, you know, 9 more teams and hit that 24, just continuing to grow it. Is that kind of your mentality?

Steve Curran: We're a franchise where there's a lot of opportunity for people. So, you know, I'm trying to tell younger people coming in to learn because there's a big opportunity for advancement with us. I mean, like I said, we've got 10 full-time people. There's a lot of spots that can open up to quality people from what we've got as we build, as we grow. You know, do I want to do the day-to-day and everything else for it? I enjoy it. It's fun. I'm a workaholic. 

So for me right now, it doesn't matter. At some point. Like to sit down and watch the game, you know, instead of working, and sit down with some of my partners. I've got some great partners that are in our ownership group. But yeah, I see myself working until they kick me out. But, again, there's a lot of opportunity for new people, and hopefully we can find some quality people, get them into those positions, and they come back through and just get that as a cycle going through. Come in, learn, grow, get a chance for another position, and, you know, move this team forward. 

There's a ton of opportunity for us to do a better job. I mean, always. I mean, I'd like to say we're the greatest and everything else, but, you know, you got to keep reinventing yourself, keep growing, you know, grow or die. And that's what we got to keep doing, is making sure we're putting our product out there, the best product, giving our fans what they want, and making sure we're taking care of them and providing a value for what they're spending for that, you know. I mean, and we're very fortunate to have a great fan base.

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. And yeah, the game day experience, I mean, it's phenomenal. I know my wife, she really liked the There's like the mic man that would get up in the crowd and interact with the kids. And so there's just so much going on. Like you said, it's like ADD in terms of just there's always something going on or something to watch or see.

Steve Curran: Our hype man, ET, shout out to ET.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, ET.

Steve Curran: He's over with Tin Tin. And again, he does a great job too. And he gets into it. And that's what you like to see. Everybody, it's a job, but it's a great job. I mean, not to put down any other job, but this is probably one that a lot of people would want to do that's fun. It's still a job, but it's a fun one to do.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And our last question for you, Steve, is the GRIT Creed. These are 12 principles that we really teach through all the things that we do. And which one or two of the GRIT Creed principles jumps out to you the most?

Steve Curran: It's funny, as I was saying, it's like I never ask anybody to do something I wouldn't do. People ask me, what do you do for the Sharks? And it's like, whatever needs to be done. There's nothing that you're above anything else. Else, you know, if they need a bathroom clean. I mean, somebody's got to do the job. You're always part of a team, you know, you always want to get the job done. 

So, thinking that I've done most of this stuff anyways, I feel pretty comfortable saying that I wouldn't ask anybody to do something I've done. Then the other one is— there's a couple actually— but, you know, try, try, try, try again, because, you know, you have to figure out a solution. You can't— there's no giving up, you know. You have to get together, band together, and figure out— if you've got something, you've got to overcome it, and you and come up with a solution. So that's something that you always got to make sure you go— the bottom line stops with somebody. And as a team and as a franchise and as a group, you know, you got to figure out ways to solve your problems.

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. And yeah, I love what you said too about just not willing, you know, never asking someone to do something you're not willing to do. And, you know, especially running a large organization like that and being successful as long as you guys have been, it's just, it's really a core founding principle that I think most CEOs or founders, that's kind of their mentality as well. So, I definitely appreciate that a ton. No problem. So, yeah. So, the best way for people to find out more and get tickets is JacksonvilleSharks.com.

Steve Curran: Sharks.com. Sharks.com. 904-621-0700. And the games are a lot more exciting than I am on this podcast, okay? I'm sorry, just let you know. Games are fun. Games are exciting. It's a great time out, great family value. And we're here for them.

Brian Harbin: It really is. So thank you, Steve! Really appreciate you giving us a peek behind the curtain of owning a team franchise. And so enjoy this today, and we'll look forward to being at a game here soon.

Steve Curran: Thanks for having me! I appreciate it!

Brian Harbin: Yeah. Well, that's a wrap for today's episode of the  grid.org podcast. We'll see you guys next time! Thanks!