Dustin Hillis - Author of 'Capacity' and President of SafeSpace Global

Dustin Hillis grew up in Dalton, Georgia and had an early start in sales and entrepreneurship as a college student at University of Tennessee. He broke a 140 year old sales record selling educational books door to door, founded a speaking and consulting business and grew it to 8 figures in sales, became the youngest CEO in one of the oldest companies in Nashville, Tennessee, recently traveled the country in an RV with his wife and daughter, is President of SafeSpace Global, and just published his 4th book called "Capacity" - Building Your Business Bigger Than You. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxduaB7y8o4

Brian Harbin: Welcome to today's episode of the Grit.org podcast! 

Super excited to have Dustin Hillis with us here today. Welcome, Dustin!

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian!

Brian Harbin: Good to see you! So we go way back. Dustin Hillis is originally from Dalton, Georgia, went to University of Tennessee, and we actually both worked in the same college summer program, the oldest internship in America, where he actually broke the company record for the most books ever sold in one summer, making over $100,000 in one summer selling books door-to-door. 

He then co-founded Southwestern Consulting, building a coaching and events program from scratch, and then became the youngest CEO of the oldest internship in America, the oldest company in Nashville. And after leaving his role as CEO, he and his family traveled across the country in an RV, his wife Kaya and daughter Haven, for about 10 months and had a chance to, you know, figure out what he was going to do next. And now is the president of SafeSpace Global, which has the vision of being the global leader in multimodal safety, helping save lives. 

So before we jump into that first question, I wanted to give a quick shout out to today's sponsor, escrow.com, the world's most secure payment method for online transactions. So whether your transaction is $100 or $100 million, escrow.com makes Buying and selling online safe, secure, and trusted. So rest assured that your transaction for a motor vehicle, electronic equipment, business domain name, or anything significant to you is protected. Visit escrow.com today to learn more about how you can transact with confidence. 

So Dustin, I wanted to jump into growing up from in Dalton, Georgia. I really always like to start at the beginning. You know, what do you feel like for you were just some early principles that were instilled as a young child, any specific, you know, family members, mentors that kind of helped shape some of your early philosophies?

Dustin Hillis: Sure. Yeah, I'd say Dalton is a unique place to grow up, being the carpet capital of the world and only being a town of 60,000 people. I thought about this often of just how the mix of that being close enough to Atlanta where about half the people there think they're from Atlanta and then being close enough to Chattanooga, where about the other half think they live in Chattanooga. 

But the reality is you live in a small town, and that's where you are. And so, you know, I think it developed a sense of toughness. I think Dalton is a tough place to grow up. And pretty much everybody I've met from Dalton kind of agree that, you know, fighting was just a rite of passage. And it was just kind of, if you see Varsity Blues, that movie kind of reminds me of what it felt like growing up in Dalton and playing football, being a wrestler. Sports is a very big thing there. And there's not much to do. 

So people are partying a pretty good bit there and having a fun time and just surviving and getting through life. So I was happy to get out of Dalton and to make sure that I didn't stay in that kind of wild and crazy gunslinging type of thing. But I am thankful for the time there and specifically the sports that I played. I think I really developed a sense of competitiveness and work ethic playing football at Northwest Whitfield High School, and then wrestling there also developed a lot of who I am today.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, definitely developed early kind of that competitive nature and hard work. And, you know, recently I did see that you went back and spoke to your high school alma mater, their football team, and, you know, there was a very specific message you had for them that was a key takeaway for you playing football. Can you kind of share that with our audience?

Dustin Hillis: Oh man, that was such a highlight. So we were actually recently recognized. The class of 2000, my senior year, was recognized as the best class that they've ever had in the school history. For the first time, they had won a regional championship, went to state. And one of the things that I did as one of the captains there was instituted a senior speech. 

So, what we would do is we would clear the room and none of the coaches were allowed to be in the room. And I had a written-out speech. And this was my first, like, keynote speech, if you will, was going all the way back to being a senior at Northwest Whitfield High School in Tunnel Hill, Georgia. And I would, like, draw inspiration from, like, Braveheart. 

And actually, one game, we actually watched the scene of Braveheart where William Wallace painted their faces and we had the paint and everybody painted their faces. And most of the speeches ended up with yelling and screaming and throwing chairs against the lockers, headbutting each other, and then running out to the field and dominating. 

And so this past year, I was asked to come and speak before the game. It was their biggest game, and this was kind of a key game for them to potentially win region. And so I wrote out this whole speech, and it was so fun. And I think the key line was really understanding why you're there as a player. 

And I had everybody look to the man to the left, look to the man to the right, and to realize that you're not winning the game just to win a game. You're winning because the person next to you that's in the foxhole is going to be your brother for life. And I still get together with Andrew Knuckles and Josh Stewart and Sean Stevens and the players that were there with me and on that team. And we sit around the campfire and we could tell you every play of every game that we played still as 40-year-old men. 

And so I said, listen, if you want a legacy and a camaraderie and a friendship with your brothers that are sitting next to you right now, you have to give it everything you got every single play because you'll remember this for the rest of your life. And then I had them all stand up and yell, we're going to kick their a**. And everybody lost their mind and started yelling. And they went out and they dominated. They won. I think the score was 53 to nothing. And that was a team that they had never beaten. So it was like a really hard team. And my buddy whose son plays there, Andrew Knuckles, told me that was the most lights out they'd ever played. So I like to think that the speech did a little something, but they probably would have won without the speech. Who knows?

Brian Harbin: So, well, and there was a part too that I really loved in your speech where you talked about where you learned to talk to yourself, and before each play you would talk to yourself And I think that was such a great takeaway because obviously we learned that a little bit later on in life through selling books, which we'll get into in a minute. But I loved how you shared that with them.

Dustin Hillis: Just that part. Yeah, it was about a 10-minute-long speech, and that was definitely one of the points was what you say to yourself about yourself will manifest into reality. And there was specifically a play where my coach pulled me off to the side And he said, "On that play right there, what were you saying to yourself?" I said, "I don't know, Coach." He goes, "Well, what were you thinking?" 

And I said, "Well, I was saving my energy 'cause the play went away from me and I kind of just stood there and I didn't pursue the ball." And he said, "Yeah, I thought that that's kind of what you were thinking." He goes, "You want me to give you a secret?" And I said, "Yeah. Yes, Coach." And he said, "If you treat every single play as if it's your last play and you give it 100%, and I don't care where the ball is, if the ball's coming at you, if the ball's going away, if they already are 20 yards down the field, you pursue that ball with everything you've got. You're gonna make plays that you never thought you could make. 

And at the end of the game, because you gave it everything that you gave, that you have, you're actually gonna have more energy at the end of the game than you did by conserving your energy. And I thought, okay, that sounds good to me. And just on my own as this, you know, however old I was, 17-year-old kid, I just thought, I'm just going to say that out loud. 

And so I went back to the huddle and I said, you know, I'm just going to go 100% every play. And that really stuck into my head and I just go, all right. So I walked up to the line, I go, I go 100% every play. And the guy across from me looked up at me and I just looked at him and I go, I go 100% every play. And he kind of like looked and I said it louder and louder and then I started getting real pumped up and I just, and then it energized me. So that became my thing. 

And if you watch my game tape, I look like a lunatic who's just sitting there talking to himself going, I go 100% every play. I go 100% every play. And my teammates would make fun of me. They were like, here goes Hillis. And it ended up actually psyching— it was like a psychological edge. But more important than the opponent hearing me say that, I was hearing myself say that. And I really think that that elevated my game.

Brian Harbin: I love that! The Hillis 100. And so you went off to University of Tennessee for college and then really embarked on a huge part of your next chapter in life, selling books with Southwestern. And, you know, I mentioned, I think it was your fourth summer where you go out and you made that decision to go out and break the company record, which at that time was a significant amount of books, usually double what, you know, a top producer would do. And so kind of reflecting back on your Southwestern experience and what you learned and honed, tell us what you feel like you really learned and took with you moving forward from that experience.

Dustin Hillis: Yeah. So it was my third summer and funny enough, it was my second summer. A guy named Keith Campbell shadowed me and he'd sold for 10 years. And it was my very last day, my second summer. And I said, well, what'd you pick up from shadowing me today, Keith? And he just shook his head and he goes, you just sold more books in a single day than I've ever sold in my 10 years of doing this job. "and you have no idea what you're doing." Or he said, "You have no idea what's in the books." 

And it was funny 'cause I really didn't. And he said, "If you take this job serious and you actually apply all of your skill and you learn like all the technical things about the product and the books, you're gonna break the company record." And it was this seed that was planted as a possibility. And it's amazing when people speak things over you the power of speaking over somebody. And I just couldn't stop thinking about it the whole way home. I was like, number one, I didn't know there was a company record, so what is it? 

Number two, what would I need to do to actually, like, learn how to, how to do it? And I just started setting goals and started working towards that. I started handwriting the sales talk every single day. I would, like, dissect the sales talk and I'd insert advanced selling tips into the sales talk and rewrote the whole thing. I went page by page through the demo and I started thinking, okay, this is how I could answer this objection with this page in the demo book. And I got just like super technical. And then by the time the summer rolled around, you know, that the year before I finished number 2 or 3 in the company and I was like 9,000 units. So I jumped from 9,000 to 20,000. Through lots of training, basically.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And your wife had the company record, I think, before you, which…..

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So part of that, she helped a little bit, right? Interviewing the former record holder and picking her brain on how she did it. And along the way, I was like, wow, not only are you really good at selling these books, but man, you're hot as well. And then next thing I know, she's my wife and we definitely get some clout by breaking a record.

Brian Harbin: 20 years.

Dustin Hillis: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: And what, just in terms of like a sales nugget that you could share, where do you feel like you really excelled in terms of like, obviously you worked really hard, I mean, insane amount of hours, just, I know you covered a lot of, you know, territory and, you know, really good with names and things like that, but what do you feel like from a sales technical standpoint do you feel like you really excelled at?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, you know, I'd have to say I was really coachable and I really did follow the process, which is a skill in and of itself. The one thing I would say that was unique that I brought to the table that I think now is pretty much incorporated into the standard operating procedure was referrals, that intuitively— if I wasn't going to say one thing that came intuitively, it was working referrals, including my very first day, my very first summer. I don't know if you know this, Brian, but I actually finished number 1 my first week, my first summer. I was on the pace setter. And so that was crazy. And I was really bad back then. 

But I think that the thing I did have was this like, hey, you know, who's the people next door? And if you were me, who would you go see? And, you know, here's my map. Can you help me with my map? So like all the training we get about referrals plus a few other things, plus like the expectation that every single person should want to help me out and give me 5 people to go see right out of the gates. I started doing that and it became a process that I think still gets trained today where there's a way to ask for the referral. There's a way to expect the referral. There's a way to not only get 1, but to get 5 to 10. 

And then there's a way to map the referral and systematically call on the referral. Where your closing ratio should be double calling referrals versus any other lead source. And I have found that to be true no matter what business I'm in, no matter who I'm coaching. If you know how to put a referral system together, you're going to end up beating just about everybody else from that one technical piece of your selling cycle.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. No, I love that! And really you parlayed that into, you guys started essentially a brand new vertical at Southwestern, which isn't easy to do with a 150-year-old company to get them to adopt a brand new idea. And the idea was basically to start running conventions, right? Selling tickets and teaching these sales principles on stage. 

So, and you guys really did that from the ground up applied a lot of the same principles and philosophies. And I think you obviously further honed your skills through public speaking, you know, ended up, you know, writing your first book here, Redefining Possible, which I read several years ago. But so kind of taking that skill set into really an entirely different business, where do you feel like you further kind of honed your skills in addition to the phenomenal sales skills you developed at that point?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, well, and not to diminish what you said, but that actually was my third book, just for the record. So my first book was called Navigate.

Brian Harbin: Oh, yes, that's right.

Dustin Hillis: Okay. Selling the Way People Like to Buy. And then there was a Navigate 2.0 that was like an advanced version of Navigate. And then that book, and then my new book that just came out today is actually Capacity Building a Business Bigger Than You, and it's available on Amazon and all of your bookstores through Ben Bella Books. 

And yeah, so that's just a little bit of a— it's crazy. You know, I grew up not being the best student, and my English teachers would think it's pretty crazy that my 4th book just got released today. And so, sorry, the point of your question that had nothing to do really with the books. It— what could you repeat the question again?

Brian Harbin: Yeah, basically. And we'll definitely provide a link in the comments for your new book for sure. And I remember Navigate, you talked about all the different types of different people that you can sell to. Exactly. Like the investigators and the— but really, no. You know, at Southwestern Consulting, at a whole different business model, you know, speaking, selling tickets, you know, how did you further hone your skills and what did you develop through, through that whole process?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, you know, the first decision was just even should I start the company on my own or should I partner with, with a backer? And it was interesting. Dave Ramsey actually played a key role in that decision. He said, look, you know, I started my own company and he said I ate ramen noodles for like 10 years. 

And then all of a sudden he got on Oprah and he became an overnight success 13 years later of just grinding it, trying to, you know, make it happen. He said you could do that too, and I'm sure you'll be successful, or you could use the resources that this company is willing to provide you and everything will happen faster. And I do think that that was true. You know, our first year we did over $1 million in revenue, which is pretty hard. And if you're starting from a flat rock and you have no revenue, to do $1 million of revenue in your very first year in any business is pretty substantial and this was 20 years ago. So, you know, still your price point would be hard. What's that?

Brian Harbin: Yeah, no kidding. And I think too, with your price point, I mean, I think when you guys were selling tickets, they're typically like $250 to $400. So you're having to sell a high volume of product to get to that.

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, we actually hired a consultant that was working with Tom Hopkins, and he said, hey, at your price point, if you eventually get to the point where you sell 200 tickets, and fill a room full of 200 people, you're going to be competing with Brian Tracy and Tom Hopkins and all those guys. And we were so arrogant and just cocky. We were like, well, we're going to do way more than that, buddy. And sure enough, our very first event, we sold 700 tickets. Our second event, we sold 900 tickets. 

And our third event, we sold 1,000 tickets. And that like put us in I mean, we were competing with big training companies, our third event, and we had no idea what we were doing. I remember being a 25-year-old and I was in San Francisco at like a commercial real estate company. And these guys were big time, like wearing fancy suits. It was the top floor of one of the skyscrapers in San Francisco. They had their whole team come in and it was this surreal moment as a young kid going up the elevator and getting out of the elevator and my name was in a plaque. And that was like the first time I'd seen that. 

So, I remember being like, they got my name, you know, framed. And so, I walked in and the owner was there and he shook my hand and introduced me and I gave this workshop. And at the end, the owner said, hey, we're all going to this. And he just stroked a check for the whole company to go. 

And I just remember thinking, man, this is amazing. And at the end of it, he walked up to me and he said, hey, we're really excited for the team to go. Who are the speakers for the event? And without even flinching, I looked him right in the eyes and I said, well, I am. And he goes, oh, and just like with confidence, I just said, yeah, we're excited to see you. We'll see you at the event. And I just walked out. 

And now as a business leader and thinking if that were to happen to me, I would be so shocked to go, wait, the guy that came to my office and sold me tickets is the keynote Brian Harbin: t the event. And we were just young enough and dumb enough to be confident enough to just go for it. and that's what we cut our teeth doing. And that really was what led to the coaching business. 

And still today, that's what the fastest growing part of that is. And last time I checked with the team that's still there with my friends, things seem to be going really well, and it's in really good hands now with some of the guys that I was working with, and I'm really proud of them.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. and I remember too, I mean, that was something that I feel like was a relatively new concept at that time. I don't feel like many people were doing this, you know, 15, 20 years ago when you guys were, but these people would come to you know, the event, and then you guys would follow up with them afterwards and offer one-on-one coaching to kind of help them, you know, increase their own personal sales and whatever else and which obviously changes the whole business model as well, where now you don't necessarily have to be on the road, you know, traveling and calling people and going to see businesses, but now you actually can have recurring clients of people that already know you, trust you, build a relationship. They're going to refer you to more people. You help them have more success, they're going to be with you longer. And so that was an idea you guys really fully developed that I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think was a pretty new idea concept at that time.

Dustin Hillis: Yeah. You know, it was educating the market. I remember that we were talking 2007, 2008, 2009. People would ask you, you would say, yeah, we do business coaching. And they were like, wait, like, like baseball coaching? And then the only example we had was health coaching. So like fitness, personal trainers had just kind of become socially acceptable. 

So we would say, have you heard of people that have had coaches for fitness? And then, you know, around 2008, 2009, people were like, yeah, I know some friends or I've had a fitness coach or whatever and be like, we're like a fitness coach but for your business. And people go, oh, that— what a cool idea. 

And so, we were literally educating the market of like what it would mean to have a one-on-one coach that's personally working with you on your business. Today, you look up and everybody's got a business coach and they've probably had 2 or 3 business coaches by now, depending on how long they've been in the game. But back in 2007, 2008, that was a new concept. And, there were some things out there like real estate. There was some real estate coaching going on there. There was a lot of group coaching. There was like training that people called coaching, but there wasn't that many really large one-on-one coaching businesses. There was just a few back in the day.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And, you know, even just as what seems like such a simple concept that people didn't really do at that point of like Set goals. How do you talk to yourself? You know, how are you doing to get better? What are you reading? Who are your mentors? Who do you go follow? 

And so you guys really made that a duplicatable model that you could teach across all different platforms. And I'm sure too, you know, the speaking skills alone has just, I'm sure, served you incredibly well. I mean, how do you feel like you were able to dramatically improve as a speaker? Is it just practice and Anything specific you feel like kind of helped you develop as a speaker?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, repetition, you know, doing workshops. We were, we were doing— sometimes I would do 2 or 3 workshops in a single day. And so when you're giving 2 speeches a day, and you're doing 10 workshops per week, and you do that for 15 years, well, I didn't do it for 15 years. I probably ran workshops for 5 years and then I started just leading the business more and doing actual keynotes. But I'd say a good 3 years I was averaging 10 speeches a week. So, how many ever that equals to. So, it's just once you've done several hundred speeches, you start to get pretty good at it. 

And then also I think Toastmasters in college, I signed up for Toastmasters preparing for this running a seminar business. And I got the first level certification in that, and that was good. And then I signed up for the National Speaking Association, and I was a member of the National Speakers Association for 5 or 6 years. And I learned a lot. I attended all the sessions and took a lot of notes, listened to all the CDs and advanced sales or advanced speaking training that they provided. 

And then beyond that, then once I started running a bunch of companies, I mean, basically every time I would give a company speech and update, you know, I was on the agenda. I mean, as CEO, I was helping run 20 different companies. Every one of those companies had quarterly meetings and I was on the agenda doing some kind of speech at every single one of those meetings. 

So, it was— on a weekly basis, I bet I was still giving 5 speeches per week, but it was just in a company setting versus a keynote. And there was a season, probably for 10 years, of just being a paid keynote speaker. Got my keynote fee up to $10,000. That was a goal that was kind of a BHAG at one point. I was like, man, if somebody would pay me $10,000 to go give a 1-hour speech, that would just be amazing. And it actually happened. And I was like, wow, I couldn't believe it when, when it did happen.

Brian Harbin: That's fantastic!

Dustin Hillis: So yeah, it was a journey. I would say that there was a series of different things to it.

Brian Harbin: And I wanted to ask too, so before you came, became president of Southwestern, like, what had you guys grown Southwestern Consulting to? If you just throw out a few numbers in terms of like how many employees you guys had, what you were doing in revenue at the time, or….. 

Dustin Hillis: We set a vision in 2010, I believe. I might have my dates wrong, but it was by 2020 to be a $20 million business. And at the time, I think we were $2 or $3 million. So that was like just an insane goal for us was to go from $2 or $3 million to $20 million. And we did it. And so that was, that was pretty awesome having this 10-year run of, of doing $20 million a year in revenue. 

If I remember right, I think the profit was $3 million, $3 or $4 million, something like that. Then once I became CEO, it kept growing. I think my last year was $25 million-ish, give or take a few million. So I don't want to be quoted on it. But yeah, I'd say $20-25 million and profit was $3 or $4 million. Something like that.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And so, you know, basically taking that company from, you know, scratch essentially to, you know, $20 million company, was that kind of what put you in position to become CEO, the youngest CEO in the oldest, you know, company in Nashville, or what led up to being hired as CEO?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, I mean, I would think that that's what the board of directors looked at before asking me to become CEO of the whole thing was I think if you looked at our trajectory over that 10-year run, we grew 68% per year on average every year. And so, our profitability grew with it as well. And so we were kind of hitting all the metrics and I started coaching some of the other companies and helping the other companies grow. So that probably played a role with seeing Oh, not only helping this one company, but helping these others. And, you know, it was kind of shocking. It was never a goal of mine. 

So when I was asked, it was kind of like, oh, like out of left field. I was like, what? What? I wasn't expecting to be asked to do it, but it was an honor. And it was definitely, you know, as a 36-year-old to be asked to do that, it was like, okay, like this is going to be different. And it was much different. You know, going from being president of one company to CEO of 20 companies and having them all report to you is a much different set of skills. 

So, having to develop those skills quickly and to, it was a lot. Those last 4 years of my 20-year career was growth-oriented. It was challenging. I'm very proud of the accomplishments of the growth of what we were able to achieve. And hopefully, that's still to today, you know, causing success to happen where we, you know, my last financial review, somebody told me this was the best financial position the company had been in since they were there, and they'd been there for a long time. So I thought that was, that's a good note to leave on.

Brian Harbin: So yeah, no kidding. And, you know, just in terms of bird's eye view of running, you know, essentially 20 companies every single day, I guess in terms of just even logistically, I mean, how do you even run that many companies in a given day? Is it mainly just touching base each day with the president, you know, having good communication with the top leadership in each, or what was kind of your focus on a day-to-day basis in that situation?

Dustin Hillis: No. So this is a lot of what got me thinking. The answer to that question was what I started writing down was like, how in the world was I doing that? And capacity, building your business bigger than you. Some of those thoughts started to percolate in my head and then testing them with starting All Things New Ventures, the current company that I own. And then all the different companies that I'm now part of is like, yeah, these pillars are really the things I was doing. So, it came down to 5 core pillars was how I did it. 

Pillar number 1 is executive strategy. So, the first thing I did was look around and just say, who are the key players here? And my very first meeting had 2 people in the room. And that was the executive team. And I was like, okay, well, we could start here and we should probably build out different responsibilities and have, you know, the executive strategy is who is doing what. 

So starting with the leader, like, what is the leader doing? What's the CEO doing? Creating a job description for yourself and then figuring out, all right, who's doing marketing, who's doing business development. Who's doing operations, who's doing all the different pieces and parts of the business. And that's where a lot of entrepreneurs get stuck is they're doing everything. 

So, as long as the entrepreneur is the rainmaker, the operations guy, you know, the CEO and the bottle washer all on the same day, it's really hard to grow a business bigger than you. So, the executive strategy really maps out that 5-year business plan. Your staffing model, putting milestones in place to say, you know, once we hit this level, that unlocks, you know, we need to hire a CMO and start actually, you know, not having just contractors do the marketing, but we bring that in-house. 

And then we hire, you know, at this level, we hire a general counsel versus just paying lawyers by the hour to help us with our contracts. So just because you don't have money doesn't mean you can't— you don't need a plan. 

So, the plan precedes the money and the plan drives the skill to reach that milestone to then invest more. And it makes it less emotional with a really good executive strategy. You've already made the decision of how much money you're going to make and how you're going to spend it. So, when you get there, it's not like, "Oh, should I hire this person?" You've already predetermined when I get to this point, I'm hiring this person. 

So now you're just working the system. It's just execution. The second thing is business development. So without revenue, nothing happens. It's the lifeblood of the business. And this is where most CEOs just don't have the skills. There's a lot of CEOs that came from the legal side of the business or the finance side of the business or the operations side of the business. So they lose sight of how important just good old-fashioned selling is. And without it, you're, you're screwed. Like you don't have any gas in your car. So you really have to hone in on what's your business development strategy? How are you going to get out there and get your— get in front of customers and sell? You know, start with your price point to your process, to your people. 

And when you get your price right, you get your process right, you got your people right, and you train them again and again and again and you increase their skills, you hold them accountable. You're going to have a pretty good business development system that you put together. 

So having that strategy laid out, understanding a cycle of the sale— you know, most people don't even know how to get from point A to point B, and they're winging it over and over and over again versus being like, here's how I generate leads, here's how I set appointments, here's how I run the appointment, here's how I close a customer, and here's how I get referrals. 

So, business development, then marketing. I think marketing strategy is number 3. And a lot of times that can go to the wayside as well. And marketing starts with your brand. So, you start with brand identity. You know, that was the first thing I did as CEO was rebranded the entire company, changed the logo, even the company name. There was different company names all over and we just said, hey, The company name is this. 

And then from there, you're able to distill that into your vision, your mission, your core values, your online presence, your digital presence. And marketing has so many different arenas. Social media, like, you know, make sure you're on social media. And so then from there is financial strategy and then legal strategy. 

So, those 5 things I would say is where the focus went into. And we started finding ways to access more money. If something was losing money and the model wasn't working, we had to make some big changes, starting new businesses that had better financial models and leveraging that. And it was a lot. But those 5 things I would say were the pillars that we did. And those 5 things are what I'm still doing today. With Safe Space. That's how we've grown Safe Space to what it is today. And I really think those are, those are the things you need to do to build a business bigger than you.

Brian Harbin: I love that! And I definitely want to get into Safe Space. Before we do though, I wanted to ask you about— so after, you know, being CEO, you guys ended up traveling around the country for 9 months and getting an RV. and so tell us, I guess, why that was so important for you to kind of have that structured time with your family and any major takeaways you felt like you had from that experience?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah. Well, after 20 years of basically being on schedule, I needed a break. And so, for those of you that sold books, you know what this saying means, but I never went off schedule. And so just reconnecting with, with who I am, reconnecting with my purpose, and mainly, most importantly, reconnecting with my family. And my daughter at the time was about 11, 12 years old and in 5th grade, and we did road school for her 5th grade. Pulled her out of school. I was the math teacher. Her mom was the English teacher. I remember we were in San Antonio and we were going to see the Alamo. 

And so the lesson the night before was the Alamo. And we came up with this idea to just watch the movie with Billy Bob Thornton, the Alamo movie. So we watched it and she loved it. It was such a— it's still such a good movie. And then we went to the Alamo the next day after watching the movie in our RV. And she was schooling the guide with, oh, no, no, no, Daniel Boone didn't do that. He did this from watching the movie, you know. 

And, you know, I bet she still could tell you everything there is to know about the Alamo. And it was such a cool way to learn for a 5th grader. And we were a little bit nervous about doing it. But what was amazing was when she went to 6th grade, she finished in, I think, number 1 in math and number 3 in her entire class in 6th grade after missing 5th grade. And I thought, all right, that wasn't, that wasn't so bad.

Brian Harbin: RV university, right?

Dustin Hillis: That's right. Well, and that's mainly not because we were actually horrible teachers. That's just because she's a smart kid. And so we had a lot of fun. We went from Nashville, Tennessee, down to Cabo, Mexico. Cabo, Mexico, all the way up to Spokane, Washington. Spokane, Washington to Skinny Atlas, New York, and Skinny Atlas, New York back to Nashville with 42 stops in between. 

Brian Harbin: Wow! And I gotta ask, I mean, top spot that you went to, your favorite, favorite place you guys went?

Dustin Hillis: There was this really cool beach town, Playa Santispac, in the middle of the Baja of Mexico that looked like a scene off of Avatar. It was amazing. There was these boats that were docked out there, these floating islands that were just kind of in the middle of the Sea of Cortez. Driving in, it was like a scene off of Jurassic Park. Most people don't realize there's some jungle elements in the middle of Mexico that we drove right through. 

And then there was these like steep, you know, switchback mountains to get down to this beach. And there's no other way to get there besides just straight driving halfway through the Baja, which is pretty dangerous. And most people aren't willing to do it. And once you get there, I mean, you're in paradise. 

And surprisingly, there was a lot of other RVs there. So there's a one bar. There's a big taco stand there that has live music every night. So we'd go drink margaritas, eat tacos, and dance at night. And then during the day, you're in this like picturesque, insane beach, and you park your RV physically on the beach. So when you open your door, you're on the beach and the ocean's directly in front of you.

Brian Harbin: Wow, that's fantastic! And do you feel like, you know, having that clarity of mind is how did you kind of figure out, okay, what am I going to do next? Was there a point in the trip? Do you feel like it was kind of after that you were going to focus on that? Or where do you feel like you kind of started to figure things out?

Dustin Hillis: Great question! It really started, you know, a few weeks in. I got online and I actually updated my LinkedIn profile just saying, you know, I was no longer at my former job and the phone calls started coming in and it was, it was, it felt good to be wanted and to receive phone calls with people trying to recruit you and make you job offers and several CEO offers, several people that own the company just saying, hey, will you run my company? 

And a lot of it was things that I'd already done before. So it was publishing companies, insurance companies, coaching companies. And I was like, you know, I've been doing that for 20 years and I kind of rang the bell and felt like I checked the box on knowing how to do that. So I just didn't have peace. I didn't feel excited about doing something I had already done. 

And so a lot of it was actually saying no that led me to thinking, what do I want and what's next? And started reading a lot of books. I actually attended several macroeconomic seminars, and I was just on a journey to think through, man, I have this rare opportunity where I can just pick what I want to do. So, I made a list of 3 non-negotiables of whatever I was going to do. These 3 things were going to guide the decision. 

Rule number one is whoever I'm going to work with is not going to be an a******. I had the no a****** rule. So I don't care how much money you throw at me. My business partner is just not going to be an a******, period. 

And number two was that the industry I was going to be in had to have macroeconomic tailwinds, meaning I don't want to have to be so good at selling that I'm convincing people to buy something that they might or might not need. I want to be in something that they know they need. and I'm having the market help versus, you know, I felt like 20 years I spent selling versus people like just wanting to buy. And so, so number 2 was just I wanted to be in an industry that had macroeconomic tailwinds. 

And then number 3 was scale. You know, at Southwestern, being CEO, successfully leading a company that was doing over $100 million in revenue, the next logical checkbox was to do $1 billion. And so, I thought, whatever I want to do next, I need to see how the math could work and the market potential could work to be a billion-dollar valuation company. And I knew I would have fun and it would challenge me to try to do that. And I've always been motivated by doing what seems very, very, very hard. I'm just weird. I like that. And so, to me, to grow something to a billion seems very difficult. And so, those are my 3 things. 

And then, through that, I just started putting myself out there, going to events. And it's amazing once you have clarity about what you want, how God and the world manifests putting those things in your path once you know, here's what I'm looking for. And it happened pretty quick. I ended up meeting Scott Boroff at a wealth event. 

So, I was learning how to raise capital. I just signed up for a coaching program to get my Series 7 and I was going to raise $10 million to help these little companies that I was working with as an equity partner.

Brian Harbin: And so, you were raising funds for other projects, not necessarily your own yet at this point, right? You're just trying to learn.

Dustin Hillis: I had started All Things New Ventures, which is a sweat equity business, and I had 5 sweat equity partners. Partners that were these smaller companies I was helping grow in exchange for equity in the company. And a couple of them started having venture capital guys call. And the more I met these VC guys, the more I was like, I could do this. 

And so, I went to an event down in Florida called Fund Launch Live, which was basically teaching you how to raise your own fund. And I went by myself, which I don't think I had ever done, is just go to an event by myself. So there I was just taking notes and learning how to raise my own venture capital fund. 

And in the hallway, I ran into Scott Boroff, who's the founder and CEO of Safe Space. And we met in the hallway, just completely random. And I said, what do you do? And he says, I'm the CEO of a publicly traded company that buys and sells technology companies. What do you do? And I said, you know, I'm helping these technology companies grow and I help them organically build their systems in exchange for equity. 

And I'm learning how to raise money. And he goes, how would you like to go to dinner? And I was like, that sounds great. And over dinner, you know, we told each other both of our stories. He raised over $1 billion on Wall Street over 30 years being a Wall Street guy. And then he heard my whole story of organically growing businesses and everything I had done. And he looked at me, he goes, you know, my favorite book is Who Not How. 

And I said, tell me about that. And he said, I think that you're my who. And so he came to Nashville, took me and my wife to dinner with him and his wife, and after a day of meetings, decided we're going to become business partners. Then, we raised $10 million through a friends and family round and hired a team and rebranded the whole company, redid all the product line, and that's where we are today. And we're publicly traded. So, you can go online, go anywhere that stocks are traded and type in SSGC, and you can see our stock ticker and you can read all of our news articles and see how things are going.

Brian Harbin: And so when you came across, you know, Safe Space, why did you feel like this was a problem that you knew you could help solve, right? In other words, like, how did you know this is one that can help, you know, get to that billion-dollar valuation? Anything specific about whether it's just a combination of, you know, the AI piece to it, or what really jumped out to you to make this say, like, all right, this is what I want to focus on?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah. So, I had already identified, I mean, this is kind of crazy, Brian. I mean, this is crazy. This is, again, I thank God. So, I had written down AI. I had known through this conference, publicly traded companies was how you get to a billion. It's like the NFL, but I thought I had steps. 

So, I thought I needed to like start my own little fund, raise $10 million, then buy a few companies, sell a few companies, and then, eventually get to like private equity and then start playing a little bit bigger, maybe get to $100 million and buy and sell companies. 

And then eventually, you know, you get to like a hedge fund that then gets bought by or you roll it up into an IPO. And like, I actually didn't know, but in my mind, very, you know, my Dalton, Georgia math was like, this seems like how you do it. And so, to meet Scott and to skip that venture capital, private equity hedge fund and go right to a publicly traded company, I think was a gift. And it was just like, this is crazy. I get to start being the leader of a publicly traded company without having to learn all this other mess. So that was, that was amazing. 

And then I think that getting into it, doing a friends and family round was where we started. So we raised $10 million, $100,000 at a time. So we had over 100 people give us $100,000 in exchange for stock. And that's how we raised our $10 million. And you look at our books today, we have $5 million cash on the books. We're debt-free. Our product is in the market and we're ready to go.

Brian Harbin: And yeah, what was the— I guess the round was basically, you know, to pay for the technology to kind of get your books where you need it. What are you guys focused on now in terms of….

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, great question! So, the 4 verticals we're in today, we believe that AI is the most powerful technology that's ever been created and that we are training that technology to be focused on saving lives. And we looked at what are the most vulnerable populations. And what we came up with were schools, senior living, healthcare. Transportation, public transit, and correctional facilities. And those are our 4 verticals. 

So we have use cases for weapons detection in schools, and we're on a mission to help stop school shootings. And through our partnerships, we now have a LOI for a joint venture with a company that actually can sense weapons at distance through cars. So concealed weapon detection from 500 feet away for an AR-15. So as soon as it enters the school campus, it's sending an alert that triggers our AI to then indicate if, if that is safe or not. That then indicates another one of our partners to lock the school down so the doors physically lock and won't open. Immediately calls 911 and routes them to the emergency. and we have a comprehensive solution and our mission is to eradicate school shootings. That's just one of the verticals. Then you have in senior living elopement detection. 

So we have a facial recognition AI tagged with all the people that have dementia in these senior living facilities. And help save their lives from not walking outside and getting lost or getting hurt or worse. Right now, the only solution is called WonderGuard, and it's a wearable, and they don't like it. It irritates their skin. They can cut it off. So it's a superior solution, superior price, and we will own the market in senior living around elopement detection. Hmm. Transportation. One of our clients is the Kansas City Transportation Authority. 

So for that, we're using facial recognition to hit the terrorist watch list. So we're working with the TSA and they're paying attention to how this all works. And currently our beta test is the Kansas City Transportation Authority and their buses getting ready for the World Cup this year. And then correctional facilities, we have a use case for Keep Separates. So gangs and separating people that, you know, are going to, you know, hurt each other. And we have, through facial recognition, we can alert guards before anything ever happens through our Keep Separate technology.

Brian Harbin: Well, and so basically it's kind of a video monitoring system that kind of processes everything through AI that you guys essentially created.

Dustin Hillis: It's camera agnostic. And so we're the software, we're the backbone. So it's a box, it's a SafeCore box. That all the cameras plug into. And it's not just cameras, it's sensors. So you can have a drone flying above a car that it's sensing sound. You could have sound sensors. So we're the AI that's collecting the data and it's the sensing, the facial recognition, the object detection, and then the notification. 

So then we're notifying whoever needs to know, hey, there's a threat here. And then we have strategic partners and we have exclusives. We have an exclusive with that cutting-edge concealed weapon detection company. And then we have partnerships that also do things like routing 911, locking the school down, etc. So a lot of it is we are the AI, that's what we own. And then we have partners that do everything else.

Brian Harbin:I love that! And, you know, I think I read recently too. I think there's even, you know, someone's developing where they can do a retinal scan to determine if something is AI-generated, which I think is actually pretty powerful as well, considering AI kind of protecting us from AI, right?

Dustin Hillis: There's so much potential fake information out there where it's like what you see on the movies, right? The AI is what protects you from the AI.

Brian Harbin: Exactly. And so I wanted to ask you too about capacity. I mean, you know, why now? Why put all this down on paper? Is this just kind of a culmination of a lot of things that you've learned in this journey up to this point that you felt like is just— I know you mentioned a few of the things in terms of like just the CEO mentality with your 5 points, but you know, what's the inception behind Capacity and why you wrote it?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, you know, with starting all things new ventures and then now having worked with probably a dozen different CEOs and leaders at every different level from a startup concept all the way to a publicly traded company that has increased in value substantially since starting, it's been the same 5 pillars no matter what stage they are in the journey. 

So, I think we all have the ability to do more. Like, I think God has given us an unlimited potential. and that's what could be scary for some people is to say, what is my potential and capacity? I think really is the first how-to book for a comprehensive guide on how to go from being an entrepreneur to a CEO. So, it's not just like, hey, here's some ideas on how to grow. This is specifically step by step. If you want to set a structure in place to truly become a chief executive officer of a large scaling business, this is how to do it. 

Now, large could be different to different people. You know, some people would be like, if I had a million-dollar business, that'd be the craziest thing I could ever think of. And if so, Capacity will help you get there. Or it could be $10 million, it could be $100 million, it could be a billion, it could be a trillion. You know, that's actually happening now. 

And so, you know, I think the sky's the limit. But I think a lot of people just don't know where to go to say, how in the world would you do that? And you have to listen to a bunch of podcasts. You have to cobble things together, which is what I did. A lot of the content, I mean, I don't think there's anything there's nothing new under the sun. 

So, this is just the culmination of thousands of hours of taking ideas from people like Elon Musk and others that have come before me and going, "Hey, this thing that he seems to be doing or she seems to be doing, really, here's how I could apply it in my world, whether I'm leading a technology company, whether I'm doing something at a different," whatever it is. I think you could apply the principles for it. 

So, I think the market needed it. I don't think there's a book out there that you can really point to that says, "Oh, this is just like that." So, I think that was one of them and it answers a lot of questions. I think hopefully, it helps a lot of leaders to help other people and to grow their business and make an impact in the world.

Brian Harbin: That's fantastic! Kind of providing that scaffolding going from like entrepreneur to CEO and all the steps in between. So I've ordered 10 copies, so I'm looking forward to reading those and giving them out. So definitely excited to check that out. Just a couple more questions I had too, just in terms of, you know, zooming out a little bit in terms of looking at all your day-to-day responsibilities. How do you, Dustin Hillis, stay sharp? Do day-to-day? I mean, whether it's just your routines, your habits that help you be at your best and perform at your best, you know, at work, at home, just as a person, obviously writing books, you know, what are some of those key things for you that help you?

Dustin Hillis: Well, I would say number one is being married 20 years will do that. And so having a wife that believes in you and challenges you is a— what do they call it— the refining process, the rounding out your edges, iron sharpens iron, whatever you want to call it. Having a 14-year-old daughter who's willing to do the same can also bring that out. 

So, and then I think leaning into curiosity, never feeling like you have arrived is is a skill. And having that humility to not feel like you're the smartest person in the room and to just know there is no finish line and to have as a goal that you think about every day is what can I improve on today? And to just have some element of some part of your life that you get a little bit better at every single day. And the pursuit of that is what I think life is about. I think if you're not learning, you're dying. 

If you're not growing, then you're going backwards. And so just never feel like you've arrived. And I love podcasts. I mean, you know, I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan, Sean Ryan, Lex Freeman, and of course you, Brian, and The Grit podcast. But I consume a lot of podcasts. I mean, I listen to probably anything with AI. 

If I see Jin Sung from NVIDIA is being interviewed, I bet I've listened to 10 of his interviews. I've flown to Las Vegas and watched his keynote at the CES show. You know, I go to all the AI conferences. I was the keynote Brian Harbin: t the Washington, D.C. Tech Week, Startup Week this past year, which was a huge honor. But not only speaking at it, learning, like attending the events and like, hey, what's going on in AI? I mean, talk about an unlimited pool of knowledge. You have to keep up every day of knowing what's going on in AI. There's no like, oh, I got this thing figured out. 

So I'm right in a sweet spot for me being a curious person to never feel like I know everything because it changes almost daily. I was at CES last week out in Vegas and doing the same thing, learning, meeting all the cutting-edge companies, like what's going on, what's the competition doing? And I think that curiosity is the key.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, that's funny. Actually, I'm going to Vegas tomorrow for a domain conference and a buddy of mine was there. He actually fought the robot. In the boxing match. I don't know if you saw that.

Dustin Hillis: There's people get in there, but I saw the robot. I saw it on display.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, it's, it's funny, but, you know, I think he won this time, but maybe next time. I think there'll be….

Dustin Hillis: As the robots get better, I wouldn't win if I had a robot in a few years.

Brian Harbin: And then the last question, Dustin, then one of the questions we'd like to ask all of our guests is the Grit Creed. These are 12 principles that we bake into everything we do at, you know, grit.org, between our internship, our summer sports camp. But, and I know you recognize a lot of these because these are just time-tested life and success principles that, you know, apply in everything you do. But which one of these do you think probably resonates most with you and why?

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, this one was easy for me. I have it all pulled up here. I don't find an excuse, I find a way. For me, that is just it. And I feel like I've been doing that for a long time. Excuses are like a*******. Everybody has one. And it's the rare individual that will find a way over, under, or straight right through any problem. 

And so when you put your mindset towards there is a way to figure this out and you don't let the excuse become the blocker, I think most things can be accomplished with enough time. Most people don't give themselves enough time. But if you give yourself enough time and you allow your mind to focus on a big, hairy, audacious goal, you unlock things that most people just don't take the time to figure out. So, they get stuck on the excuse and then the excuse feels good. It's like a warm, fuzzy, stinky blanket. That just, you know, people just feel comfortable in. And if you can get out of that comfort zone and not believe the excuse, your mind will find the way.

Brian Harbin: Absolutely. And, you know, it's— you've definitely lived that for sure. And, you know, going back, knowing you now for 2 decades, I've just, you know, I appreciate you and how you've always set the bar. You've always thought big. You've always gone for it and leading by example, leading in the trenches and everything you do and just how you've continually developed your skills over the years and you just keep collecting more skill sets that you're adding in. 

And so, yeah, it's been fun watching your journey and super glad we had a chance to catch up with you today and share your experience with our audience and looking forward to see what you guys do with Safe Space and reading your books. So really, appreciate you taking the time to be on today. And so thanks for being on!

Dustin Hillis: Yeah, thanks, Brian! Thanks for having me! I really appreciate it and glad to be here!

Brian Harbin: Yeah, well, that's a wrap for today's episode of the grit.org podcast. 

Appreciate you guys tuning in, and we'll see you next time! Thanks!