High Profile Attorney - John Phillips

We sit down with John Phillips who runs a defense law firm in Jacksonville, Florida. He has been the attorney for many high profile clients like the Tiger King and Omarosa, is a TEDx speaker, business owner, father of 3, and has built a large social media following on YouTube. He shares with us some incredible stories and up close moments with Robert Shapiro and many more fascinating moments throughout his career in becoming one of the youngest lawyers to be Board Certified in Civil Trial Law by the Florida Bar. Enjoy!

Brian Harbin: Hello, my name is Brian Harbin!

Welcome to today's episode of the Grit.org podcast!

Today we have John Phillips here joining us. Welcome, John!

John Phillips: Hi! Thanks!

Brian Harbin: And so super excited about John. So he actually grew up in Alabama as a graduate of Alabama Law School, has been practicing law defense for 14 years here in Jacksonville and has represented some major cases like the Tiger King and Omarosa. He's had a TED Talk talking about what his line of work in defense and is a father of three boys. So excited to dive im.

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So, John, we like to, to dive in early. You know, growing up in Mobile, Alabama, you know, with parents, I knew you had a sister. So tell us about some of those early habits that were instilled, you know, through you, through family, sports, early jobs, anything from early years, it stands out.

John Phillips: Right. So, you know, I was born and partially raised in Mobile, and then my dad was a nuclear power plant engineer. And so we moved around the country for a while, wound back up back into Monroeville, Alabama and then back to Mobile, Alabama.

So, you know, through that process of moving around, I do think it helped me be adaptable in communicating with strangers. Right? When you change schools, when you're put into a different environment, you find a way to positively assimilate and find common ground with people. And then I think the second part of that answer is my mom's originally from Waynesboro, Mississippi, and it's this tiny little town in Mississippi in Wayne County. And her father and grandfather were both lawyers. One became a judge, one ran for Congress, and actually was announced that he won, and then the next day they said that he lost.

But, you know, they both predeceased me. But mom would tell these Atticus Finch, John Grisham caliber stories about, you know, growing up, and, you know, she had tremendous empathy and compassion for people and the way that she conveyed their line of work and their nobility of representing the downtrodden and African American individuals doing wills and everything else. In Mississippi, I talk about that in my TED Talk.

Those two things, I think, probably created the me that I am now, as much as anything, somebody that cares about the legal profession and justice and trying to do right by it, while also understanding it's a business and we've got to, you know, pay salaries and meet obligations and be ethical in our practice.

Brian Harbin: What about any early jobs that you had early on? Any sports? What were some early passions that you had growing up?

John Phillips: Yeah, I played middle school and high school football. I wasn't very good. And so, you know, I was studious. I was really into music, you know, which was harder back then. You know, you had the radio, but you had to go buy the tape, you had to go buy the CD to be able to listen. You couldn't just spontaneously pull it, you know, out of the Internet.

And so, you know, my cassette tape collection envied all others, like, you know, I loved music. And, you know, I was a pretty, you know, normal kid, a likable kid, you know, a very sensitive kid. And, you know, there's… with any adolescence, you know, there's positive and negative. Right?

And so, you know, I think I was liked, but also because I was sensitive, you know, I was called Tinkerbell. You know, I was made fun of. I wasn't. And I was always moving around, and so I was always the new kid, until the last few years of my high school career. But that also made me sensitive to those that had been picked on, you know, because I'd felt it.

And, you know, I spent time, you know, at different lunch tables, you know, trying to make people feel better. And, you know, ultimately turned, you know, the perception of weakness being, you know, not the best on the pass routes, right. Not the most vicious blocker, you know, on the football field, but somebody that was likable and, you know, kind of the rah rah guy. You know, every team has somebody that's just probably shouldn't be there, but they're the positive influence and…

Brian Harbin: The hype man.

John Phillips: Yeah, the hype man. And you know, I'm still then and now. I'm still, you know, my default is introvert. But I live in a very extroverted world and have created myself as a known entity by having to do extroverted, out-in-your-face kind of things. And so I'm able to kind of pull off both. But I was a pretty shy kid, you know, and found that shy and quiet might help you with your grades, but it doesn't help you, you know, assimilate. And so you have to find a voice and, you know, kind of kindness, and you know, being well raised certainly helped.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, no, I can definitely relate to that. And my freshman year of high school, I was 4'11, 75 pounds. I could literally fit inside the locker, which I was put in there before. But yeah, you have to overcome some of those early obstacles. So you end up going to Alabama Law School. Was there a point—I knew you had some early influence that kind of helped point you in that direction of wanting to practice law—but was there kind of that defining moment where you're like, okay, this is definitely what I want to do?

John Phillips: I mean, growing up watching everything from Night Court to LA Law to kind of the John Grisham takeoff occurred during my time—the Firm—and John Grisham went to Ole Miss. My grandfather, great grandfather went to Ole Miss. My cousin knew John Grisham from law school.

And so my grandmother always got like a signed first edition from him. And so he was a hero around the house. And I do remember sitting in bed, kind of upside down, reading the book. And I referenced it kind of in my pre-interview—there was a test and I had to look up what it was. But we all, like 6th or 8th grade, got this vocational test. And I remember there were some questions like, do you like filing? Do you like file cabinets or something? That I faked. I was like, yeah, I must, because I want to be a lawyer. Because I needed it to generate that I needed to be a lawyer in my mind.

And it just… I was political science and criminal justice majors in college and certainly had Dr. Smecla, the head of the criminal justice department, that took an interest in me and kind of helped me debate things like capital punishment. Let's see both sides of it. Let's not just go on what my parents’ belief was and things like that. I think I was, from the day that I started, it was always going to be seven years—college and law school—and not even knowing necessarily when I got out into the job market in 2000 what I was going to do with it. Like, all right, so I'm a law graduate. I've passed the bar. Now what. And that's what we've evolved is the what, you know?

Brian Harbin: So, you know, being an attorney now, having practiced for so long, looking back over your experience in law school, what do you feel like you learned from it? Do you think it was that in terms of being able to understand both sides of an argument, or what do you feel like you really learned in that?

John Phillips: Yeah, Alabama's a good law school. You know, at the time, we were, I think, top 25 and like the first or second public law school in the south. So kudos to Alabama. But law school is tremendously competitive and cutthroat. And so, you know, the students that have their hands up at all times and have read the materials and, you know, want the A and the A plus and book the class, that wasn't me. You know, I'm naturally smart enough. Right?

But I didn't. I wasn't the best student. And in fact, by my third year in law school, I was bartending at a place called Boo Radley's, you know, from To Kill a Mockingbird. Here we go again with that being a part of my life. But the people were fantastic. You know, the professors were great. They give you a great broad… you know, the real effective purpose of law school is to get you to pass the bar exam, you know, and instill how to process information, how to read cases and determine how cases decide arguments, who wins and who loses. But, you know, I wasn't the best student. Didn't have the six figure jobs, you know, thrown at me out of law school, but I think I did okay.

Brian Harbin: That's right. So, yeah. How did you figure out what was the next step for you once you graduated?

John Phillips: So my last year, I was interested in clerking for a judge, but the big judge, the federal clerkships, the Supreme Court clerkships, those all go to the top students. Right? Or some level of nepotism. And, you know, even though I had family that were lawyers, they were long gone. And we didn't come from money and we didn't come from power.

And so I got interviewed by two judges, Judge Wood and Judge Rusty from Mobile, and they apparently, on the car ride home, fought over who was going to get me, which is always a good thing. And Judge Wood got me. And he's since retired, but wonderful judge.

And, you know, for a year, I sat in the front of his courtroom as his bailiff, as his law clerk. I basically told him how to rule on certain things when he was too busy. You know, I helped with juries. I was the one that cleaned up the trash after a jury deliberation. So I kind of saw their notes, and it was tremendously impactful to kind of see behind the scenes.

And then after a year, a lot of the litigation firms in Mobile wanted me, and it was like, okay, so now this is what it's like. Now it's nice, right? And I got a job offer I couldn't refuse to move to this town called Jacksonville, Florida. And I was like, yeah, that's fine. If you pack and move me, I'll come. And I didn't expect them to say sure. And they said sure. And, you know, off I came to do insurance defense, which, between two firms that split—one split from the other—I did that for my first 10 years here.

Brian Harbin: And I think, too, you know, from working with a judge, too, was also helpful for you to understand, as a future lawyer, to understand how judges think.

John Phillips: 100%, you know, and that they're people too, you know, and under stress. And it's only gotten worse with… particularly in Florida with COVID there was a backlog, and then we changed our statute of limitations in Florida from four years to two years. So more cases were filed quickly, overnight. I think Morgan and Morgan filed, like, 10,000 cases, like, in one swoop.

And so, you know, understanding that judges are under their pressures from senior judges and from supreme courts, and they're people too. But really it was getting to communicate with jurors, and we didn't talk about the case, but just getting to kind of hear how they feel about jury duty. Some considered it a patriotic duty and some a massive inconvenience, some both. And it was that, that I was like, this is what I want to do. And also sitting in trial every day, watching some fantastic lawyers trial, medical malpractice cases and commercial litigation cases, and being able to see the art of storytelling at what can be some of the highest levels that storytelling can be done from an advocacy standpoint. I loved it and wanted more of it. And, you know, now get to do it.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And what is so fascinating about watching, you know, attorneys is that, you know, you're telling a story, but it's really to that specific jury. Right? So you really have to understand what they're thinking. The jury selection, I know, is a whole art in and of itself.

John Phillips: It is, you know, and it's six or twelve, almost always six in Florida. And I've had juries of thirteen, because you get twelve, plus an alternate that sometimes deliberates, and it's there. I know from doing this and from talking to judicial administrators and everything that they don't tell jurors, you have to have a poker face, but some of them have tremendously good poker faces, and you can't tell. And somebody that has a little bit of inherent insecurity and ADHD, you're like, what am I doing? Like, juror three just doesn't care. Like, she's not paying attention. She doesn't smile at me, and have I completely lost her?

And then at the end, you see juror three cry. You know, after the verdict, when your client starts crying, it's like, yeah, see, it's… you know, there's going to be some times that I try cases that I'm telling the story from a standpoint of objectivity, and then there's some times that I just love my client and the stakes are as high as they could be. And, you know, both of them, you try to do with as much passion as possible.

But, you know, there's nothing better—and maybe it's the little bit of gambler in me—but there's nothing better than winning one, you know, getting that verdict and having a job well done and getting that hug is the ultimate thing. But for every one of those, there's, you know, seventy to eighty settlements where you don't get there, but you're doing a good job.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And so you mentioned coming to Jacksonville. I know you worked, you know, kind of in corporate law, I guess, is what, or somewhat for nine years. How did you get to that point where you're like, okay, it's time to, you know, go out on my own?

John Phillips: Yeah. So, you know, coming out of law school, insurance defense at the time, and probably still now, had the job that was easiest to get. Right. And we're all insured, whether it's car insurance or homeowners insurance or commercial liability insurance or umbrella insurance. And basically, the insurance defense lawyer gets paid by your insurance policy to defend a claim against you. And they don't… the client can sometimes choose a private lawyer, but generally if it's an insurance-paid lawyer, they're choosing.

And so I represented Coca-Cola and Hertz and State Farm and a host of other insurance carriers or major companies, and certainly helped them craft laws that were favorable to their side, like with the Graves amendment for car rental companies. But my job was to defend their money. And that's fine if you have a frivolous claim and somebody that had a history of car crashes or whatever, and you're like, well, no, you didn't tell us all about it. And you're arguing over $25,000 and the stakes are low, but when you have brain injury victims and people who have been catastrophically injured and you're arguing over $25,000, that started to wear on my soul.

And, you know, I tell people I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat, I'm reasonable. And I take that in my practice too. Like, I want what's right. And, you know, there was one particular case that we were doing surveillance on this mom, and I was pretty intensively using my likability in a deposition against her to get her to open up and tell me the things she couldn't do. And then we'd film her doing them and, you know, save the client money.

And as I watched the surveillance that we got of our surveillance guy filming through sea oats as she played with her kids, I just felt gross. You know, and we got the savings we wanted, but… and I got a letter saying I did a good job. But it's like if people are truly injured and civil justice, you know, you can hate personal injury all you want, but if civil justice is only about money, right, it's the only way we can fix pain, then we've got to have a system that works.

And so I left there, went to Morgan and Morgan thinking that was the way to fix what hurt me, and it was a whole different problem, and lasted there, now, a year and a half, and then have had my firm since 2011.

Brian Harbin: So, yeah, tell us about starting that business, because essentially you're becoming an entrepreneur that just happens to practice law. So, you know, how did you get started on your own? Tell us about some of the early challenges there.

John Phillips: And so Morgan and Morgan. My last day at Morgan and Morgan, I had just tried a case, a slip and fall case, and one of the jurors raised their hand before we introduced who we were, said we were Morgan and Morgan, and said, I hate cases like this that reek of desperation, like by firms like… and she said, Farah and Farah and Harold and Harrell. And I just was like, oh no. And I asked for a sidebar. And I was like, judge, she's tainted this jury. Like, we can't come back from that. He’s like, you got that one, now go get the rest of them.

And so finally, we beat them down to the point we had five possible jurors left. You can't try a case with five jurors. And so we got our mistrial, and we got to start over. Right? But I went back and sent the reply-to-all email to Morgan and Morgan. I was like, look, guys, let me tell you about my experience and how we need to endeavor to help our reputation. They didn’t say our firm’s name, but as soon as we did, we advertised at the time, not nationwide, but all over Jacksonville. They were the number one advertiser. And I got two positive emails and no other response. The next week, I was fired.

And so it was my Jerry Maguire moment. You know, and I appreciate it. It wasn’t working out. I wasn’t good at running 400 cases at once. I have a firm of between 15 and 25 people the last 10 years, and we don’t run that many cases, much less running it with one lawyer and two staff or four staff. But May of 2011 was about as challenging as you could get because I became unemployed overnight. I had to fire my paralegal and legal secretary that I brought with me on my way out, because they were not going to remain employed.

My girlfriend of a few months told me she was pregnant, with now Bennett Phillips, which means little blessed one. And my mother told me she was ill. And so I didn’t know if I wanted to go back to the safety of insurance defense and start with my clients that I had, or just hang a shingle and prayed on it and just figured I’d start a firm and see what happened.

And, you know, we got this guy named Jake Scott who believed in us, and a few other clients. A lady got ran over on Daytona Beach, Aaron Joint, and we got her a $2.6 million judgment. And, you know, I took Coca-Cola to trial, who was a former client, and we got a $1.1 million jury verdict. And then, you know, Jordan Davis happens in 2012, and the tragedy surrounding that case put us in a new stratosphere because we were on CNN all the time.

And so, you know, but it started with—and it’s kind of my call out to people listening or watching this—that if you believe in yourself first and foremost, you can find a way, because I knew that I could do it. But we rented an office in a church building, a church business building, month by month, meaning I didn’t have a long-term lease. And office by office, meaning $250 for this office, $350 for this office. We wound up with three. And then we got a real office, and then we got a bigger real office. But as much as I believed in myself, I also didn’t sign a long-term lease because I wasn’t sure if I’d leave. But we made it. We made it.

Brian Harbin: Well, and, you know, smart business thinking too, where you’re not taking on a big office. You’re growing as your business grows. And would you say that the case in 2012 with Jordan Davis was kind of a breakthrough case for your firm?

John Phillips: It was, you know… so that story, I don't know that I've told in very great detail, but I had done a lot of wrongful death work on the defense. I had not yet had a wrongful death case on the plaintiff side, on the victim side. And Nikki Preid, now Kimballton, called. She was a Channel 4 news person, and her dad worked with Ron Davis, Jordan's dad, at the airport. And I had seen it on the news that a young African American teen, high school student from Wolfson, had gotten shot and killed and the shooter fled. But that wasn't necessarily what I did.

And Nikki said, look, you're the best lawyer I know. You're the best heart I know. Just go visit them. Just go sit on their couch and tell them what they need to know. And, you know, you do know a little bit about media. And there's media knocking at their door. And if nothing else, you could just stand in between media and them.

So I went over to Ron’s house, and Lucy was there. And now Lucy is Congresswoman McBath. She's a U.S. congresswoman. And then she was just… just devastated. Mom. Right. And while I was there, three news reporters knocked on the door, and I had met them through other cases, and I was like, not now. Like, not now. “Are you representing?” I don't know. Not now. You know. And I took my associate.

By then I had an associate, and I took my associate with me. And we both just cried. We were just bawling as parents. And I tell people, you know, I'd lost my mom the previous November. So she told me she was sick in May. She died in November. Bennett was born the following February. And had I not lost the most important relationship I had in my life and gained a son and experienced that level of love, I don't know that I'd be ready for that couch. Right?

But Ron was like, I'm hiring him. Like, I don't… we'll figure out what he can do, but I'm hiring him. And Lucy’s like, well, I'm gonna hire a Georgia lawyer. I'm from Georgia. You know, I'm gonna… and I was like, well, just so you know, it happened here, and I am licensed in Georgia too, but choose whatever you want. And she let me know that night she was hiring me too. And later in a documentary—I think it was Armor of Light—she’d say, you know, he was young, and I didn’t know his experience necessarily, but he had heart. And that’s kind of been the common thread, you know, is practicing with compassion.

But, you know, we went the next week to the funeral in Atlanta. And then there were constant local media requests. And then kind of everything changed when Rolling Stone magazine—Paul Solotorov, a great writer—published a piece in Rolling Stone magazine. And within a week of that, every major national outlet was calling. And this was on the heels of Trayvon Martin too. And CNN flew the family in for an interview and then asked me to be a panelist.

And, you know, I was flying back and forth to Atlanta to be on their shows before Zoom, you know, and kind of got to meet that different level of lawyer that are used to this, that were generally 10 to 15 years older than me, and realized that justice, particularly in that case, wasn’t just defined by civil justice and money. No amount of money is going to bring a child back, and it’s certainly defined by the criminal justice system. And so we worked with prosecutors nonstop, including in between the trials, to help them retool their arguments.

But, you know, it’s the court of public opinion too, and it’s what change can come. And Lucy spoke. Lucy and Ron both spoke in front of federal Congress. I spoke in front of state Congress. There was a pretty tense moment that Lucy’s addressing aspects of “stand your ground” and how it’s in the jury instructions. And Matt Gaetz was the state congressman at the time and was pretty hard on her.

And, you know, later they would become fellow congress people. Now Lucy’s outlasted Matt. But it is a weird chapter that we just lived day by day. But it was the case that put me on the map and certainly, you know, one where we got all the civil justice possible, we got all the criminal justice possible. And, you know, laws were changed, and Lucy platformed to the U.S. House of Representatives. And it laid a groundwork for me on how to practice with heart.

Brian Harbin: And I think, too, you told that story about how when you sat down with them on that couch, how you had changed over the course of that year between, you know, you get your mother on one side passing and then your brand new son. And it was kind of that perfect culmination of like, you’re ready… love and loss… [Crosstalk]

John Phillips: You know, love and loss. And you just… there’s plenty of people out there that don’t want children. They’re just not that type. And I get it. And that’s fine for them, but you’re a parent of three as well. Like, there’s moments they drive you crazy, but it changes your life, you know. And my mom. Mom, like I… that first phone call, and I might tear up talking about it, but that first phone call to my dad, who was just not an “I love you” kind of guy. Like, he was that old southerner, but I couldn’t get the words out to the point that he thought something had happened.

And I was like, nah, man, it’s the best day of my life. And it changed me. And who knew then that Angela and I would be together 15 years from a three months… what are we going to do… and three boys now. And Bennett will look over my shoulder on some of the cases we’re doing. And he’s walked in every MLK parade that there’s been since then, since he could walk. And, you know, they’re not like me, where they need to be lawyers because I’m not encouraging it. They can choose whatever path they want. But they are different from the perspective of their… they see things that other kids probably don’t see because we don’t shelter them from the work that I do. You know, that we do some, because it’s vulgar and it’s, you know, I’m not going to show my kids autopsy photos.

Brian Harbin: Yeah.

John Phillips: But it, you know, for them to understand, like Omarosa versus Trump. Why? It’s why, why? And we’ll get into that. But why our role of protecting speech doesn’t matter who the parties are, because it’s about, can you use political speech as a federal employee or former federal employee. That’s the core issue. So let’s drown out the noise and focus on, you know, should non-disparage agreements apply to White House employees?

Brian Harbin: And, yeah, so I was going to ask you about that. So when you’re working these bigger cases in terms of, you know, you mentioned Omarosa and Trump, and then, you know, you’ve represented the Tiger King. So when you’re working these cases that obviously get huge national coverage, what are some different challenges you have to navigate when you’re working those cases?

John Phillips: The first place we always start is the Florida Bar rules, right? Because I don’t want mama calling me and saying, “Listen, John, I heard what you said and you’re in trouble.” So the first guideline is the Florida Bar rule says if there’s a trial coming, essentially chill out on publicity because you might mess up a jury.

Well, in some cases, because you’re going to get a sample pool of 25 people, most of your cases, they’re not going to know about or care about. Now, I happen to get the biggest cases in my market. And so they might have heard about them by the time they’re set for trial. It happened yesterday. I represent one of the families from the mass shooting at Dollar General. And the judge said to everybody yesterday, you know, by 2026, people might not remember this like they did. And so we’ll bring in 60 jurors and we’ll see if that works. But, you know, that’s kind of where you start.

I commented for Court TV this morning about a high-profile trial and how they’re talking too much. And, you know, we have lawyers that do a press conference for every time there’s a problem. And I’ve learned from that lawyer, and I’ve worked with that lawyer, one of them.

John Phillips: But, you know, my way isn’t that I don’t think everything needs a press conference. And, you know, we’re storytelling, and our clients come to us raw, and we can fill them with good information or bad information. And my goal is to fill them with good information. And so the higher-profile case, you know, Omarosa had done more media than I had at that point, you know, and so she had her way of doing things.

And when we first did the Sunday show circuit, right? She’s fired. She has these tapes. I shut up and listened because, you know, we always have to be in search of the smartest guy or gal in the room and shut our mouths. You know, Dalai Lama is a paraphrase that we learn nothing when we’re speaking. We learn everything when we’re listening. And at some point, you know, Omarosa’s been through it, and so she was wonderful to learn from.

And she’s very different. You know, her villainess persona from Apprentice is very different from the woman—the victim of a free speech violation. And through this, whether it’s Terrell Owens or UFC fighters or NFL players, you realize that they’re coming to you with problems that you need to fix. And they want discretion. They want to be treated, you know, sometimes a little higher in… but, you know, they don’t want you using their platform for your platform. Unless that’s beneficial, mutually beneficial. I have some clients who are like, yeah, let’s do a press conference every time you get a chance.

But, you know, you don’t get celebrity clients to repeat if you’re doing it wrong and you’re not treating them with respect. And, you know, I enjoy that aspect of my practice. There’s a point where it’s like, okay, I have enough right now, you know, because some of them can be high maintenance. But it’s tremendously fun.

Brian Harbin: And you had mentioned earlier, like, one of your early role models was Bob Shapiro. And, you know, and was it, you know, for him specifically and anybody else that kind of jumps out? Was it kind of how they handled themselves when they were under the microscope in big cases? Or what do you feel like you kind of look for in mentorship and the type of person and attorney you want to portray?

John Phillips: Yeah. College and law school again, I was soaking up TV shows and Court TV, you know, and when O.J. was being tried, I watched it. And, you know, the way Johnnie Cochran handled himself was fantastic. And Bob Shapiro was just different. And he'd come in there and he would close.

And, you know, what people don't know about Bob Shapiro is, you know, he was hungry and passionate, too. And his first celebrity case was a lady named—I don't know what her real name is—but went by Linda Loveless. And in Las Vegas, they showed an X-rated movie featuring Ms. Loveless. And she got arrested for public indecent exposure, whatever they charged—obscenity laws. And that was Bob's first celebrity client. That was the first time he got involved, and he platformed that into a life of representing the most affluent celebrities. And he's done so without a lot of the pomp and circumstance and kind of the Better Call Saul antics. He's not that guy.

And, you know, between watching him in court on TV and then Jerry Spence, who's another trial lawyer from out west, who would go on CNN and break it down—and again, not with the sensational stuff you'd see on television—but they'd break it down so well that it just kind of captivated me. And I was like, this is, you know, this is kind of the standard. Although I never really loved or wanted to do criminal defense. And Bob does some of it.

But, you know, through this career post-Jordan Davis, you know, Bob Shapiro had eventually heard of me, and I reached out to him. And he's like, come to California and come go to court with me. And we did, and all his cases settled. And so it wasn't very interesting. He's like, let me book you a special set. Like, let me get you out here. And he had a client, very affluent and very famous, and his daughters are even more famous. And he had built two houses on a cliff in LA and joined them—got two separate permits, joined them to one big mansion. And the city's like, no, that violates all our standards. You don't get to do that. You violated the building code. And so they wanted him to tear down the house. And Bob litigated it.

And just kind of a funny moment from that—Bob had left his Dopp kit in his car. And I'm suited and booted, hair just right, everything, because I'm in an LA courtroom just kind of shadowing Bob Shapiro. And everybody had expert stuff and everybody had an assignment. And I was like, I'll go get it. He's like, John, it's like 80 degrees outside. You're dressed up like— I was like, no, no, no, let me go get it. Like, where’s your car? And I sprinted out there sweating, you know, and stopped at a bathroom, dabbed my face, and took his Dopp kit to him.

He said, I really appreciate that. Like, nobody does that. I was like, look, you've invited me here. And the hearing went okay. And at the end Bob's doing his press conference and has all the media gathered, took off his ball cap—you know, he has a ball cap that he wears sometimes even with a suit on—and took off his ball cap, did his press conference, and made me stand by him. And I have that picture signed “to a great lawyer and a great friend, Bob Shapiro.” Wow! And that meant the world, you know—here, full circle. The me being 15, 16, 17 years old and watching this guy and then, you know, going to lunch and talking about strategy of interviews and marketing and all of that.

And that day, coincidentally, O.J. was on parole, had his parole hearing. And so I sat in Bob Shapiro's Cliffside home and watched and heard stories about O.J. and Geraldo Rivera and all the stuff from the O.J. trial. And I brought a friend with me, and when Bob was changing, I was like, what are we doing? Can you believe this?

And, you know, going back to the question, like, I'm no Bob Shapiro. I've done some things right. I've had some high-profile cases, and we've had some successes. And, you know, anytime along the way, there's somebody that reaches out to me—come go to court with me, let me help you do whatever I can—because, you know, I'm on Court TV every Thursday morning, and somebody out there is watching and is like, oh, I like the way he does things. You know, I'm a little different. Like, this morning, I drew a picture of somebody rolling their eyes and showed it to the camera. No other lawyer is going to do that. Like, we don't bring props to TV interviews. And it made everybody laugh, and it was just a unique moment. But to me, it's my normal.

But we all don't have to be boring and take ourselves so seriously. Going back to the kind of grit creed, it's right there—I don't find an excuse, I find a way. And this kid at one point, who had a mullet from South Alabama, has found a way to litigate against Ivy League–trained lawyers and has the largest jury verdicts in some jurisdictions and has worked through it, you know.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And the fact that, you know, he brought you out there to mentor you, and the fact that you’re, you know, doing the same because of how much it impacted you, I mean, that’s really, at the end of the day, what it’s all about. And, you know, you’ve done some other things too, like, you know, a TED Talk. You’ve got a YouTube channel with over 100,000 subscribers. I know you’ve said it’s kind of something that’s evolved, but, you know, it’s not something you see typically that attorneys do. What do you feel like kind of sparked that and, you know, why you do that and some of the benefits you’ve seen from that?

John Phillips: Yeah, it’s, you know, you… we’re a brand. Right? And you can talk about yourself as a brand without trying to be an influencer or trying to be thirsty. Right? I have to deal with the fact that I’m a brand. I resisted for decades allowing them to put my face on a billboard. I wouldn’t do it. I didn’t want to be that guy. But eventually they’re like, you know, you’re on the news all the time, and they need to know that this is you. And I was like, all right, let’s make a run with the billboards. And they work, and we get some cases and then we take them down. I don’t need to leave them up all year.

And so, you know, the best example that I have of how a little bit can keep going is I had a client run over while sunbathing—you know, kind of the high-profile case I got before Jordan Davis. I was on the Today show before Jordan.

Brian Harbin: So they were on the beach.

John Phillips: Yeah, she’s laying out on the beach with her family. Drove down from Wichita, headed to Disney. A little time, a lifeguard did a U-turn driving on the beach and ran over her. And she survived, but had facial nerve damage and a host of issues. And as we litigated that case, we got a $2.6 million verdict.

During it, the client testified about how the media reporting of this sensational story… she had to—she was a schoolteacher—and so she had to address every single year with a crop of new students who Googled her. “Hey, just so you know… like, that’s me.” But it was something I needed to hear at the time about the fishbowl and how, just because we can get media for clients and just because we can tell their story… at some point, our job is to stuff it back in the bag too, because media will take it too far.

And, you know, I fussed at people who reported about her eyes popping out and kind of made a joke about it too, because this was her life. But then I represented another one because she saw the story. Then I represented another one. Then another one. And another one. And I think we’re at, like, nine women who’ve been run over while sunbathing. And I get the calls from the media as soon as one happens. I did it a couple weeks ago when somebody got ran over again in Daytona. But it’s because all these articles built, right?

And so whatever—my website, backlinks, and SEO and all that’s really important—but all these news sites are sometimes going to get you better clients than others because they’re seeing that this is what you actually do. And, you know, then kind of taking that to getting verified on all the social medias—and now, you know, you kind of pay for it, but then you couldn’t—like, that was a goal. Having a Wikipedia page that lasted was, you know, kind of a big deal a decade ago. And because they’d always pull it down—“you’re not notable enough.”

And then it was, we started posting full depositions on cases—police officer depositions, public official depositions, some high-profile depositions where people could see behind the curtain. And some of those became tremendously popular.

It was a great dumping ground—speaking of YouTube—it was a great dumping ground for some of my interview content that we could put back up. Some’s licensed, you can’t. But, you know, we’ve steadily grown it. I’m not the lawyer doing viral TikToks. We’ve debated it. We’ve done some stuff for the Jacksonville Shrimp and others that’s a little more fun and lighthearted.

But, you know, like I said when I left Morgan and Morgan for my firm, you know, I can be on the news or I can be between the news. I can pay for the commercials or we can do the dang work and have cases that are being reported and, you know, talk about life and justice on social media. And you save money while also getting people that are otherwise not trusting those firms.

And, you know, people are starting to understand—as Morgan gets sanctioned for using AI to write briefs and gets in trouble for it, or other lawyers are being investigated—that just because it’s bigger doesn’t mean it’s better. And, you know, part of our plan has been just be everywhere we can be, because there are so many different resources out there.

Brian Harbin: Yeah.

John Phillips: You know, I just… I don't have the time to do my TikTok legal dances every week.

Brian Harbin: Right. Well, I love what you said, too, about be the news or be in between the news and, you know, being in the world that I'm in with domains and websites and, you know, SEO and all that stuff. It's just refreshing because so few people understand the value of it.

And like you said, I mean, it's a lot less expensive than, you know, the billboards and sponsoring teams and things like that. But, you know, like you said, the articles, the backlinks, and especially nowadays with, you know, YouTube being searchable and owned by Google, it just… it makes a lot of sense to be able to grow a brand organically in a way that.

John Phillips: Well, and all that stuff changes month to month. And so I have a guy that tries to stay on top of it and keeps us, you know, as high as we can be local and, you know, do what we need to do. I don't need, you know, 100 cases a month either. You know, I need. I need a big firm's rejected cases. Although I like the big cases. But, you know, it's again, going kind of to the creed. It's the work, man. You got to do the work too, and you can work smart and let a news media's use of your name help.

When COVID happened, I bought Folio Weekly, the 34-year-old entertainment magazine in Jacksonville. And I put my ad on the back page, but I don't quote myself in it. I don't. You know, we tell stories and I stay away from it because I don't want to be accused of dictating the news. But we tell stories that others won't. And it's an outlet for me to watch as Folio Weekly tells stories that maybe my firm can't. You know, maybe there's not a lawsuit to be had, but there's been plenty of times.

And I'm like, listen, I know you're calling my office. There's a statute of limitations. We can't do this. But talk to my publishers, talk to my editors, talk to my people and see if they want. You want to do a story about it. And if they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. But it's, you know, it's about impact and using what we have to try to educate and make people's lives a little better.

Brian Harbin: And speaking of stories, so thinking back through, what is your favorite story in terms of an interaction, a case, you know, maybe. I know you mentioned you had represented Terrell Owens or just, you know, some of these people that you've worked with, interacted with, any story that is, like, for you, you know, a top.

John Phillips: I mean, they're all different, right? Like, my time with Joe Exotic is one of my favorite times, but also has been the source of some darkness. So, you know, for people that don't know, that weren't sitting at home during COVID, you know, Netflix aired Tiger King, and it became an overnight sensation. I didn't watch it with my wife until a couple of months later. We just kept seeing it on social media, and so, like, all right, let's watch it. And she was entertained by it. I was fascinated by it. Like, so much meth, so many tigers, so much craziness, guns, the whole thing, that I was like, wow, that's the craziest story I've ever seen.

And then we go back to work, you know, we all kind of adjust, and people dress up, you know, like Joe Exotic and the crew for Halloween. But, you know, I don't think anything else of it, but I do. Wrongful death. Wrongful death is my biggest passion, you know? And in Tiger King, they discuss how Don Lewis was killed. And they believe Carole Baskin killed him and then fed him to tigers. Okay, so Don Lewis's family calls me out of nowhere. I didn't post about Tiger King. I didn't want, you know, necessarily anything to do with Tiger King. I didn't know. And he was killed over 20 years before.

And so I'm like, well, there's a statute of limitations, but there's an exception to the statute of limitations for intentional homicide. And there are opportunities now related to defamation because it's being republished. You know, Carole Baskin was doing a daily YouTube reading, her diary from back in the 80s and 90s. But she was making contemporaneous changes to it that it was not reading her diary.

And so they flew to Jacksonville or drove to Jacksonville, and we met, and I agreed to take the case, did a press conference. You know, it was much like the Jordan Davis whirlwind of activity. Tiger King season two was filming. They were constantly in our office, they were setting up witness interviews so I didn't have to. So, like, they would be like, okay, you can interview these witnesses if you want. You got to do it on camera. And I'd be like, can I do part of it on camera and part of it off camera? Yeah, sure. Once we leave, we don't care.

And so I do the scheduled interview that they agreed to, and then I'd get the information I needed, and I'd go home, and then they'd do the next one and the next one and the next one. And next thing I know, I have the guys giving me their cell phones and giving me evidence because they all thought that this would be great for season two of Tiger King. Meanwhile, they were giving me very incriminating information about them. And, you know, it was fun.

And then Carole Baskin went on Dancing with the Stars and was using that platform to further her guest appearances. And first, Ghost News approached me and said, hey, do you want a commercial during Dancing with the Stars? I was like, that's really not me. But find out how much it would be in the Tampa market, because that's where all this stuff happened. And they said, all right, we can get your Tampa market, Jacksonville market, for like 2,500 bucks, first spot out, you know, in those regions. And I was like, okay, we'll do it.

And I drove to Tampa with my videographer that works for my office, and we filmed a commercial. We generated it so fast that we spelled assistant wrong in the original debut, which drove me crazy. And it was totally my most Better Call Saul moment of my career. “Do you know what happened to Don Lewis? If so, call 1-800-LITIGATE.” You know, and it was supposed to air the first spot. It didn’t air. Next spot didn’t air. Next break didn’t air. So I get on the phone, like, guys, where’s my spot?

You know, I need to see it on my Jacksonville market. Like, I paid for it. They’re like, well, national’s looking at it. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, legal? And everybody’s just kind of looking at it. And then I get a message: do I want to be on Good Morning America the next morning? And I’m like, well, that means they’re airing it, you know?

And so I’m like, oh, what’s going on? And so they waited to right before Carole went and aired it. And the next morning, Howard Stern’s talking about the commercial. It goes everywhere. And Joe Exotic, sitting in jail, federal penitentiary actually in Texas, sees it. And the next week he’s calling, saying, hey, you did to Carole Baskin what I’ve been trying to do for 20 years. Will you take my case? I’m like, I don’t do criminal appeals. I don’t do that. He’s like, just let me fly you out here and tell my story. And he did and made an offer I couldn’t refuse. And, you know, off we went, helping Joe.

And if people watch season two of Tiger King, I ultimately get fired by part of the family in this crazy, I think scripted, sort of somewhat scripted production arc, but whatever. And they create this artificial rift between me and a YouTuber over it. And, you know, for years I wound up representing Joe and Anne McQueen, Don’s assistant, who totally was defamed—accused of being involved with the crimes, murder, and fraud—and her First Amendment case is before the Florida Supreme Court because Carole appealed a favorable ruling we got. And we basically took a civil litigator’s approach to Joe’s case.

I drafted up two motions for new trial that went through all of the lies and stuff that went to set him up, and that was fun. I rode Jet Skis with Jet Ski Boy. I had tigers licking my face in Las Vegas. I got to pet tigers and meet, you know, go behind the scenes at Doc Antle’s place, and everybody opened their doors to me, and it was fun. And, you know, Joe’s spending years of his life for something he didn’t do. He did some stuff, but not what they convicted him of.

But unlike the Davis case where they lost their son, this wasn’t life or death. I could also argue that Joe’s spending his life in jail. So it is serious, and certainly a family lost Don Lewis, but it was a fun ride. And then once we put out our motion for new trial and we knew it was going to happen, all the people that confessed to us were mad. And so then, you know, they started attacking my family. And, you know, I think I told you before this—they used my children’s name as backlinks to an OnlyFans site and just awful. Used my pictures and my kids’ pictures and their social media and, you know, it wasn’t worth it, you know, at that point.

But the whole thing was such a carnival ride, and to be a part of pop culture. And I’m really proud of the motion for new trial. It’s on appeal still. But, you know, it also gave me insight into kind of how government corruption works and how, if government wants you, they want you, and they can come get you, and they have all the power and money to be able to do so and have, you know, done documentaries about that.

But it was probably the more fun ride of many that the career has allowed me to be on. Joe and I still, you know, talk probably once a month. I’m not officially on the legal team. I kind of said, all right, now I’ve done what I needed to do.

But, you know, there’s facts about that case. He was charged with improperly euthanizing or destroying five tigers. And in our investigation, we found two or three of those tigers alive. Still alive, living in Tennessee. And so they can’t be improperly euthanized if they’re still alive.

Brian Harbin: Right.

John Phillips: But, you know, the facts didn't matter, and they only pulled the heads out so they could show the gunshot wound. Right. Rather than the states of disarray of their body, because you can euthanize a tiger that's dealing with constant pain and suffering. But it was stuff like that that I was like, oh, man, this is real. But working with—and neither one of them probably wants their name in the same sentence—but working with, you know, Omarosa and Joe Exotic.

 And I've worked for the Naked Cowboy. You know, he's had a couple of cases. You know, those personalities were fun. And to do real legal work within those spheres was fun. You know, again, putting Omarosa, how you feel about Omarosa or Trump aside, litigating a First Amendment case involving White House officials and deposing heavy members. I've deposed Sean Spicer. You know, like, that's the top of my trade. And so people can say whatever they want. Whether it's ambulance chaser, tiger king reject, or whatever. I've got a pretty broad career that I'm pretty proud of.

Brian Harbin: No, absolutely. And make for some incredible bedtime stories for grandkids one day, I'm sure. Right. And, you know, the neat thing, it all came from you saying yes to a $2,500 ad spot. Right? I mean, it's crazy how things work.

John Phillips: It is. And I turned down more media on that case than probably every other case combined, because I didn’t have a lot to say. You know, I'm not going to go. And, you know, I said what I needed to say in the commercial, and we made a decision—let them keep airing the commercial rather than airing my sound bites about it. But it was—and I recognize it—like I said, my Better Call Saul Goodman kind of gimmick.

But, you know, I always grew up watching Howard Stern too, or listening to Howard Stern. And to hear him the next day—like, somebody text me, like, Howard is literally saying your name right now. And that, you know, that’s fine. And it was—I had a pride point of being on every, like, 60 Minutes. Like, I kind of had a middle list of all the shows that I’d been on. And that one, like, doubled it because it was Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood and all the ones that don’t cover legal every day.

And so I was like, okay, so if I count because I was in there, you know, now I’ve been in, you know, some aspect of me or my case has been in every show, even Saturday Night Live has spoofed Joe a few times. But who’d have thunk it, you know, from a guy, young lawyer trying to pay the rent to where we are now. And it’s not stopping. You know, I’ve got real important cases and real fun cases queued up for the next decade.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, you mentioned another name earlier before we aired. But you got some other interesting clients you’re working with too.

John Phillips: Yeah, I’m not going to invade too much of his privacy, but there was a high-profile individual who I had to sue. He caused a brain injury in a terrible incident. And when you litigate professionally and within the confines of the rules while being likable, sometimes they call you. And, like, I’ve had in that Coca-Cola verdict case, one of the drivers called me for his wife. I’ve had jurors call me. And there’s no better compliment than people involved in trial and people against you calling you. And this high-profile individual called me a couple weeks ago about a civil litigation issue he had.

And I was at the NCAA tournament watching Alabama with my kids. And it came in, and I was as giddy as could be because, you know, one, it’s a celebrity client, it’s a big deal. But two, it’s one that I litigated my heart out for the client, you know, and for somebody to see that, even though they had to write a check to me, you know, is a compliment. And so I’ll let that person talk about it.

Brian Harbin: Yeah.

John Phillips: When the time’s right. Yeah.

Brian Harbin: No, very cool. And, you know, you mentioned your kids going to the basketball game. So with all the things that you’ve been through and experienced, and, you know, them at the pivotal age—I know they’re kind of in that elementary to middle school age, approaching high school—what are some key values and principles that you and your wife try to instill in them, and how do you feel like you go about doing that?

John Phillips: Yeah, you know, we try to channel them as individuals. Like, I've got kids that are exposed to more than a lot of kids as far as the reality of the world. They deal with Uncle Joe and Aunt Omarosa. They come around or do when the case is going on. And so they just have different insight, but in pretty much any self-description, I'm a dad and husband first. The choked-up moment talking about the day my kid arrived is how I live about my kids every single day. And I'm in this to be the best lawyer I can and make an impact, but I'm also opening doors for them, you know, and that means something. And I just love them and I want them to have the best life possible.

And, you know, there are decisions I could make every single day that we could want for nothing that I don't make. I don't do this for the money. You know, it pays well, it's nice, but it's not my motivator. And they see that. They see their dad raw. And I have a wonderful relationship with all three of my boys.

And again, you know, if that's not—if, like, my dad by comparison, I think that's probably why I am the way I am—was a workaholic. You know, he's a nuclear power plant engineer. So he made a conscientious, wise decision for us to live an hour or so away from his work because he's dealing with nuclear power.

And so, you know, he's up at sunrise, coming back at sunfall every night. Hard worker, south Alabama kind of, for lack of a better term, you know, kind of a redneck kind of guy. Went to Auburn University. So when I went to Alabama, you know, I was like, really? And then he hated lawyers, and he was like, really? But you know, good man. Just a good hard-working man.

But we didn’t throw the ball in the yard. You know, we went fishing a few times. We went to football games. Like, we did stuff, but I wasn’t the center of his life. Work was. And you have to respect that. You know, it stinks compared to some of my friends, but he did everything he could to give me every opportunity that he could. Me and my sister—I wouldn’t be here without him. And he and my mom, very different but married. I never saw them fight. Like, they just got through it.

And you know, but I’m going to be with my kids. Like, my kids are 13, 10, and 7. And after a long weekend, I’ll miss them on Mondays. Like, I’ll be in at the office, like a little homesick, missing them while they’re in school. And I’ll cut out at, you know, 3:30 to pick them up from school and not let them ever feel unloved, not ever let them know that I’m not thinking about them and love them.

And that’s, you know, that’s where this all comes full circle. My clients love them like they’re around, you know, and we live pretty openly on social media, which is a bit of a marketing choice too. You know, if I live out loud, people see me every once in a while and be like, oh yeah, there’s John out there. And, you know, judges ask about my kids. Like, it’s just—we’re just a family trying to make it. And it’s getting harder as the years go and as we fight each other more and are pitted against each other.

And so, you know, I think God’s put me in a position to have raised my kids before we knew how shootings were going to affect us, how school shootings, how politicians were going to divide us. They’ve lived through it. They’ve seen me kind of professionally walk through these situations, walk through these fires, and guide people to the other side.

And so, you know, it’s helped me as a parent because I can draw on examples. You know, like Omarosa and Trump—how they fought but they remained civil, you know, ish. And so, you know, Joe Exotic sent—and I don’t even know how he did it—got somebody on the outside to send my kids gift cards that Christmas. And, you know, like, that’s cool.

Brian Harbin: Yeah.

John Phillips: And so I just… I want them to have true childhood, you know. But they got this year to go to the Final Four for Alabama basketball against last year. And this year they got to go to California to throw a pass with Joe Montana and Brock Purdy. And, you know, they have charmed lives, and they know it. And the celebrity stuff—they get access, you know, and hopefully they channel it to giving back as well.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's… And just two questions I wanted to ask you. So, you know, obviously, being in a career where even just a phone call, like you said, when you're sitting there at the NCAA game and you get a phone call from a celebrity client, that changes trajectory. How do you stay at the top of your A game personally, in terms of habits, routines, anything that you do? Because, you know, obviously in your business, everything kind of keeps growing and builds on each other, but how do you personally stay dialed in, focused, mentally sharp? What do you feel like?

John Phillips: You know, there's so many of these interviews where people convey that they have it together at all times, and they wake up ready to go, and they go to bed and get a full night's sleep and wake up ready to go again. And they're putting on a perception, and I hope it's their reality. But it's day by day for us. You know, there are times that I'm worrying until 2 a.m. and don't sleep well, and then the next day I'm sluggish, or our wonderful nanny can't make it in, and I'm chipping in. Like, we just live life. I can't say that I have any routine. I try to make sure that I get 30 minutes of exercise every single day. And usually I'm multitasking, listening to something that I need to listen to.

Brian Harbin: Right.

John Phillips: But, you know, like most families, my wife, me, and the kids always have something going on that's a challenge. And because we solve people's challenges every day for work, I take that home with me as well. And so, like, this week, I wasn't at the top of my game. I wasn't as nice and as kind as I could have been, you know. I'll be the first to admit, one of my kids got a C that I didn't expect. And I walk into his room, and he was watching Minecraft videos on television. And I was like, that's that. And so I pulled his box out of his TV, and I didn't throw it. I didn't yell, but I was like, you know, buddy, until you get that C up, I think Minecraft television is now over. And do your homework.

And, you know, you don't get podcasts like this, where people just be real, you know. And, you know, I embrace the challenges. They've made me better. You have to. Like, as a lawyer, I don't lose often. But, man, you learn from those losses. There's a couple trials in particular that I wish we had won, and we lost them, and it hurts. But you know how to prepare the next client for that circumstance. Look, let me tell you. But, you know, I live by doing. You know, when I ran for city council, I lost, right? And lost in third place, so I didn't come close. But I won every minority precinct in my district.

And that meant more to me than winning, you know, because I lost because of people in my own neighborhood who thought I might not be the Republican that they want, that I might not be conservative values enough fiscally or whatever, when potholes don’t care.

But I’ve had several people reach out since and be like, dang, oops, I should have voted for you. I was like, well, I’m not running again. I learned the lesson. But I say that to say, learn from your failures, listen to your children. We’re in an era now, and I know this from my cases, that meme culture websites like 4chan, 8chan, and some stuff that’s on the dark web is radicalizing our children and parenting them in our absence. And, you know, the chat boxes on Minecraft or PlayStation—crimes are being committed, grooming, radicalization.

The mass shooter in the Dollar General case here in Jacksonville was on these sites and had committed to TND, TFD, and TPD. So TFD is total fed death, TPD’s total politician death, and TND, which is probably the worst one, is total inward death. And because he was surrounded by the poison all day, he was poisoned. His mind was poisoned.

And you know, we don’t have mental health treatment in this country like we should, and parents are too busy. And so, you know, listening to our children, checking their phones, checking their computers, understanding the technology that we may not have grown up with has things that they know better than us.

My kids have figured out that if they turn their phones on airplane mode, my monitoring software that’s on their phones and iPads doesn’t work. And so…

Brian Harbin: I didn’t know that either.

John Phillips: Yeah. And so they’re a step ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s stuff that we gotta figure out. But, you know, despite having marks of objective success, I want people to know that I have objective failures too. And we have to learn from that because influencers aren’t gonna talk about that. You know, the people that we hear from don’t talk about their failures and their hard lessons. And, you know, real people do.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, no, that's all incredible advice. And really the last thing, too — I know you mentioned a couple of them throughout the episode — which part of the grit creed do you think resonates most with you?

John Phillips: I mean, it's fantastic, but my purpose is larger than me. You come from, you know, you take an atypical path to get somewhere and you appreciate it. And like this morning, I'm gonna tell you about a guy named Trent Green. And I might get emotional. Right after Jordan Davis was killed, I'm in Washington, D.C. with Jordan's family, and Trent Green calls and he says, I hear you're the best. I said, I don't know about that, but how can I help you?

And he said, you represent Jordan Davis’s family. I'm like, they're right here if you want to talk to them. And he goes, my son was shot and killed in a nightclub, and the killer’s gotten away. There’s no evidence to figure it out, but he was murdered. He had a child, Brandon Green. And, you know, I was like, I’m not there, so I can’t — I gotta be here for a couple. He said, no, no, no, it’s fine. And so we represented them, and we found a photographer that had worked in that club. And everybody identified the shooter as this guy with this red Kangol hat.

Apparently, somebody stepped on his shoes. He went out to his car, grabbed a gun, and even though it was a nightclub with metal detectors and everything else, he got the gun in after hours and shot and killed Brandon in the middle of the club. We found photos of the guy with the red Kangol hat and found somebody who identified him, handed it over. The prosecutors successfully found and convicted him, and we got a very nice settlement for his family and Trent.

That was 2013, 2014. Trent, to this day, I see weekly. He runs a maintenance company. And so he was working on a piece of fence that fell at my house today, and he messaged me, hey, just in case anybody reports it, it’s me working on your fence. And I appreciate him telling me that, but it also hurt me because here’s an African American man that feels like he needs to alert me in case a neighbor thinks he’s breaking in. And they would, and they absolutely would. And that’s the society we’ve got to deal with.

But I tell Trent’s story and Brandon Green’s story because it was — none of my cases are more important than the other, and they all created me. Brandon Green was going down at the same time Jordan Davis was going down from a justice perspective. But my relationship with Trent Green and the families that we’ve represented is the best part. My purpose is larger than me. My purpose — like, for the hundred Schneider kids that we represented that were victims of pediatric dental abuse — they’re all out there with college funds. Some of them got to see an insight into the justice system. Brandon Green’s family — that means more than settlement dollars.

We’ve run a firm that’s been as big as 25 people and three stories of a downtown building. Matt Hunt and I bought a building in Riverside, and we’re kind of keeping it local and keeping it easier now. We grew too big. But my purpose is my kids. My purpose is justice. My purpose is, without forcing it down people’s throats, living my faith and trying to be a voice for people and just kind of hear them out.

And so I appreciate this. I appreciate platforms like this that really just strip down some of the BS and us all coming in with bravado and bragging about ourselves and saying, look, we’re all just trying to get by. And we can do so, hopefully, trying to inspire and help others.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And there’s no doubt, just the same way you were looking at Bob Shapiro saying, you know, there’s definitely kids out there that say, hey, I want to be just like John Phillips. And undoubtedly, at least one of the boys in your house. So that’s the goal, right?

John Phillips: You know, we’ll see. There are times that I get upset because they don’t — like, they don’t say lawyer first. And then I think, what a weird life it is. And there’s one that I’m pretty sure is headed in that direction. But I want them to do what’s best for them. And at 13, because I was weirdly programmed, you know, I’m just trying not to make the mistakes of some of my parents.

And even though I think my mom telling me these stories was probably as fortuitous as a fortuitous mistake, I couldn’t imagine — I guess I would teach school, you know, if I didn’t, if I wasn’t doing this. But I love it. We’ll see what they become. But again, first priority — be respectful young men.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. Well, this was fantastic, John. Just totally packed with stories and great advice and just phenomenal. So thank you guys for tuning in for today’s episode of the Grit.org podcast.

We’ll see you guys next time!

Take care!