Steve Zona - Fraternal Order of Police

Steve Zona began his law enforcement career with the Jacksonville Beach Police Department in 1988, serving as a patrol officer until 1990. In 1990 he joined the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, serving as a patrol officer and sergeant until he retired in 2016. Steve became a member of Jacksonville Consolidated Lodge 5-30 in 1990. He was elected Lodge Secretary in 2013 and Lodge President in 2015, a position he still holds today. Check out the interview to hear how he navigated through this journey and the incredible impact he has on the community. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDTUQ93kfnY

Brian Harbin: Hello! My name is Brian Harbin. Welcome to today's episode of the Grit.org podcast! Today we have Steve Zona in the studio with us. Steve, welcome to the show!

Steve Zona: Thank you for having me!

Brian Harbin: Yeah. So, a little bit about Steve. So, born in Pennsylvania and moved around a couple times, but by the age of 10 was in Jacksonville, Florida. Which is where he still resides today in Jacksonville Beach. He spent 29 years as a patrol officer and sergeant over the K-9 unit, sex crimes, robbery, and homicide, and all the exciting things, right? And then spent 35 years as a member of the Fraternal Order of Police, where he still works with them today and was selected as a member of the year in the year 2020. He's been married to his wife Kathleen for 31 years and has 3 grown kids, 2 boys and a girl. 

So welcome Steve!

Steve Zona: Thank you!

Brian Harbin: And, before we hop into our first question, just wanna give a quick shout out to our sponsor for today's episode, escrow.com. With over $7 billion in protected transactions, escrow.com is the world's most secure online payment method. From automobiles to electronics to business sales and more, escrow.com makes it easy to confidently conduct business online. Visit escrow.com today to learn more about how you can achieve trust, security, and certainty with every transaction. 

So Steve, for us, we'd like to start at the beginning, just early life growing up, just any specific, I guess, principles that you feel were instilled in you at a young age, specifically any mentors, family members that kind of helped shape your philosophies growing up.

Steve Zona: Sure. So I was one of 5 kids growing up, and I have to say, without a doubt, you know, the biggest mentor and people who formed my philosophies and beliefs are my parents. They were just very compassionate and they instilled in us a strong work ethic. And I can still remember to this day, which I've passed on to my kids, that nobody owes you anything. You have to go out and earn it. And when I got my first job, you know, they sat me down and said, "Hey, they don't owe you anything. What they owe you, every 2 weeks you get paid." And that's what they owe you. Now go try to make that place a better place, you know, and go do your job, basically. And that was probably the biggest foundation that all of us got. And their compassion, and they always hung out with people like-minded to them. 

So, you know, you could say it takes a village to raise a kid. We always had that support in the neighborhood from all of our neighbors. It was like you would look at them like mom and dad too, you know, growing up, and that was what we all had. That was something we appreciated.

Brian Harbin: And you mentioned that first job, so what was that first job for you and what age were you?

Steve Zona: That was Publix, and I started at 16 years old, and I didn't know if I'd ever get the job, right? I applied. It was a brand new store that opened in Atlantic Beach, and my dad worked for Kellogg's cereal company, so he had a relationship in the grocery business and the And I started there bagging groceries and eventually ended up, before I decided to become a police officer, ended up as a full-time stock person at Publix. And back then you would come in at 1 in the morning and stock the shelves and they would be ready to go before, you know, the business opened in the morning. And I didn't do that very long because, you know, at 18 I decided I wanted to be a police officer.

Brian Harbin: Okay, so tell us about that decision in terms of what led up to you wanting to be a police officer.

Steve Zona: Sure, sure. Never thought of it in my life. I didn't even know it at the time. I mean, I knew a lot about my grandfather, but I didn't know my dad's dad was a police officer for a short time period. 

Another individual working at Publix with me volunteered as a police officer. Back then they were called reserve police officers. You do it for free. You went to the academy for a reduced amount of time, not the full time a full-time police officer would do. And you were limited. You had to ride with a full-time certified police officer, but you were out there in uniform and, you know, a gun and a badge, and they were— you were providing a service to the city for free. And he said one day, you really need to try this, you'll like it. I was like, man, go away, you know, just go away. 

And then I decided, let me ride a couple times with police officers, and I enjoyed it. So, you know, I applied to the academy to become a reserve police officer and was accepted and went to the academy. And I did that for about a year, volunteer work. And then by that time it had taken hold. I knew that's what I wanted to do.

Brian Harbin: So do you remember those first few ride-alongs that first year when you're training? I guess anything that jumped out specifically in terms of, you know, what flipped the switch for you from having no interest to wanting to do it?

Steve Zona: Sure. I mean, it's just, I mean, police work is not routine. I mean, some of it is, but we always say there's no such thing as a routine call because you can go to a domestic disturbance, a traffic stop, whatever it may be, and it's routine because it happens day in, day out, but the outcome is never the same. 

So that part of the excitement is what grabs ahold of you at first, but then you get to see that you truly do make a difference. I mean, when you're out there, you're not going to people's houses at their best times. You know, you're not encountering people at their best times in their lives. I mean, most of the time they're having some sort of crisis and you can see where you can actually make a difference. 

So those two things with the intrigue, the fun, and then the fact that when you look at the whole big picture, you realize that, hey, we're actually helping, we're making a difference. It's one person at a time most of the time, but you can see where you leave them in a better place most of the time.

Brian Harbin: And I'm sure early on you had some mentors in terms of Police officers that you shadowed or worked with, and maybe you wanted to mimic their demeanor. What did you feel like was kind of the demeanor/energy that you wanted to bring to each situation? What do you feel like was the aspect you brought to the job every day?

Steve Zona: Sure. You know, I always loved doing something right. I mean, you could, as a police officer, you could wait for the calls or you could go out there and be proactive. And one of the very first training officers that I had instilled a couple things in me that kind of steered my direction. And I still talk to him to this day. We went to a domestic disturbance and the wife wanted us to go around there and get some of her belongings because she was having an argument with her husband. No physical, you know, touch. So there was no crime or anything like that. 

And when someone invites you to their home, even though the other one, like the husband, didn't want us there, you have a legal right to be there. And then he actually kind of interfered with us trying to help her, and I arrested him for resisting arrest, being in our way. And my training officer sat me down when it was over with and goes, "What'd you do?" I was like, "Well, boss, he was— he wouldn't get out of our way. You know, we needed to get her purse and everything else." And he goes, "You could have handled that better." He said, just because you can— I didn't do anything wrong— doesn't mean you should. So that was instilled in me early as a police officer. 

And the same training officer said, look, you're going to eventually go around to somebody's house and they're going to have an old rusty bicycle that was stolen. And he goes, you need to treat them like that's a Cadillac because to them it's everything to you as an old rusty bicycle. So those two things early on in my career, you know, kind of instilled that compassion for people, you know, when you were encountering them. So I tried to carry that through my career and I love to be proactive and do things.

Brian Harbin: So I'm curious too, what are some helpful tips that you learned? Because I mean, obviously you're going into a situation where, you know, like you said, if you've, you know, if the police have been called, it's already escalated to a point that somebody doesn't feel comfortable and then showing up in uniform obviously is going to make it a little bit more tense. So what are some things that you do to kind of de-escalate the situation in terms of what you say, how you say it, questions? What do you feel like was a strategy that you would try and go in each time to try and de-escalate the situation?

Steve Zona: Sure, sure. I mean, people are human. I mean, we…. first thing we try to do is separate them, right? If there's multiple people there arguing, whatever it may be, we try to separate them. Because you find with separation, it kind of calms down a little bit. They're not looking at the person they're angry at or, you know, that caused us to be there. 

And then most of the time, like I said, people are human. If they feel like they're being heard, if you take the time to listen to them, you might not agree with them and they might be 100% wrong and they might be going to jail, but if you take the time to listen to people and let them have their voice, their say, I find that that tends to calm it down a lot. You know, sometimes it's not possible. You know, when you roll up, it's in the heat of things and you have to do what you have to do. But if you have the opportunity, we used to just take the time and listen to them, you know. 

And then finally, when they start hearing themselves talk, most of them realize, "I'm wrong," you know, and, and I'm caught, for lack of better words.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, so really just kind of hearing their perspective, everything kind of gets and puts them at ease. And sure, then you're able to kind of figure out the solution from there. So you start off as a patrol officer, and I guess any stories— so I mean, 26 years you kind of put in, obviously you worked in a variety of different units. We talked about, you know, the K-9 unit, and then, you know, some of the robbery and homicide and sex crimes. I guess what, any particular stories for you that kind of stand out in terms of what, why you did what you did and continued to do that? I mean, in terms of just feeling like a larger purpose of what you're doing each day?

Steve Zona: I wouldn't say any particular story. I mean, each one of the units I served in had highs and lows. I spent the majority of my career, 19 years, in Investigations. When I went there in the late 1990s, I found it just really intriguing, right? I mean, you were able to put the puzzle pieces together and you're able to catch, you know, I started in sex crimes, which, you know, sexual batteries, abuse, sexual abuse of children, those types of things. 

So you're able to put the pieces together and take really bad people off the street. And then same with robbery and stuff like that. So just the day-to-day work always kept me intrigued. You know, it was… it was some of them were whodunit, some of them weren't. And, and that brought a sense of satisfaction to me. 

But at the same time, you could see, like I said earlier, especially in those types of things, and in the homicide unit— I didn't spend very long there at all, only 18 months— but you could see the end results of what you did made a true difference in people's lives.

Brian Harbin: And what about at any particular times that you felt like it got really hard where you kind of questioned why you were doing it and how you kind of overcame that?

Steve Zona: Sure. I never had a point in my career where I said, "Police work's not for me." I think the point in my career where I was like, "Man, I got to go do something else," is when we started having kids. The pay for police officers was not good back then and we made a conscious decision as a family for my wife to stay home and raise the kids like we were both raised, the same way. She was working at the time. She decided to stay home, so we struggled, and it was at that point I was like, man, do I really want to do this? I mean, I got, I got bills to pay, kids to raise. I could remember way back then, you know, if there's older people watching, they'll understand. Way back then, you could write a check on a Wednesday afternoon and it didn't clear the bank till Friday. 

I remember writing checks at 5 o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon to pay for groceries that there was no money in there, and I knew it wouldn't clear till Friday, right? I'm confessing to a crime probably, but we had to do it. And it was at that point where I was like, do I really want to do this? I can go get a job down the street doing something less dangerous, be home with my family. 

And so that was a struggle to get through that. Actually, the advice from my parents got us through that because my dad was famous for saying— I didn't want to listen to him, but he was always famous for saying, "It's not what you make, it's what you save." So we had a struggle to get ourselves back in budget and realize that we could cut things out. We made it through that time period and we were fine, and that was probably the only time in my career where I was thinking about doing something else.

Brian Harbin: And what advice would you have, I guess, too, for cops that do have— because, I mean, you had 3 young kids and you're a patrol officer in terms of, you know, obviously you are, you know, it's not always a safe job, right? So how do you feel like you kind of stayed motivated in terms of just obviously doing your job at the same time wanting to, you know, be there for your kids? And how do you feel like you kind of managed that and overcame some of the maybe fear of what the day-to-day entailed?

Steve Zona: Sure. You'll talk to police, they'll say, "I'm never afraid," and those are the ones you need to worry about. I mean, because you are, you're going to at times in your career, you're going to have fear of stuff you do. It's just, it's natural. It's not natural to walk into a 15,000-square-foot building in the dark knowing somebody's in there with a gun that maybe just shot somebody, you know. So I think for the average officer, I think you get through that fear based on your training and based on the fact that you know the people that work around you are going to support you and have your back when you're doing your job.

Home life sometimes is a little different. I had it easy because my wife came from a law enforcement family, so she knew, she grew up with it. I experienced on a daily basis, what I brought home on a daily basis, she had experienced it. So we've come a long way. You know, the financial aspect of it is better. We actually in the academy provide financial literacy counseling. Our training in Jacksonville is second to none, you know, on self-defense, tactical issues, everything else. So our officers are going out there equipped better than ever. You know, from when I started, to deal with what they have to deal with every day.

So I just, I tell the average officer, a new officer, I would just tell them, say, hey, it's a job. It's a calling, you know, job, calling, same thing sometimes. But don't let it become your identity. Don't let it become who you are. Because if you do, it's going to consume you. And then it's going to start affecting your home life and everything else. You have to be able to, as hard as it is, when you hit that door at home to try to turn it off, and sometimes it's impossible, and then become dad, you know, or husband.

Brian Harbin: And I know through the Fraternal Order of Police, you still mentor and I'm sure talk to a lot of, you know, current police officers and, and can act as an advisor there. So what are some ways that you feel like you can, that people can do that? I mean, because I feel like it's important, not even in being a police officer, but just being a dad in general, but What, what advice do you typically lend in that regard in terms of being able to kind of separate and compartmentalize the job versus being a dad?

Steve Zona: Sure. Now that's not something that we do on a daily basis where, you know, we sit down with a group of police officers or something like that. But in my current position with the Fraternal Order of Police, I represent police officers who find themselves being complained on either by the public or internally from the agency for policy violations or whatever they may be. And we take the time, you know, our organization takes the time to try to figure out, is this just a one-off? Did, you know, did Billy have a bad day and do something, you know, he shouldn't have done? Or is there underlying factors there? And we try to figure that out. We try to take the time to figure that out.

And quite frankly, our agency is good about that. That used to be taboo, right? I mean, you wouldn't delve into people's lives, you know, because they're human too. Sometimes what's going on in their lives can affect their work, just like if they worked at IBM or anyplace else. 

So we take the time to do that, and then if we find something, we're not professional counselors or anything like that. We have resources, some provided by the agency and some provided through the Fraternal Order of Police, that we can direct them in the right spaces to get the help they need in hopes of the next time we see them, it's because we're eating dinner together and not that they're in trouble.

Brian Harbin: And yeah, very early on in your career, you joined the Fraternal Order of Police in 1990. And so for all the listeners, tell us more about what the Fraternal Order of Police does and, and kind of your reason for joining so early on in your career.

Steve Zona: Sure. I mean, the main driving factor for me at the time, I didn't realize, you know, the, the words in the name fraternal, you don't realize the family you join. When you join, and it takes you a little while to get that through your head that you've got an extended family now of however many police officers. For like Jacksonville now, it's almost 1,900 and then 600 correctional officers. 

But I knew the older people that when I joined were talking to me saying, hey, you can't go out there and do this job without some sort of protection, someone that's going to look out for you and make sure that your due process rights are maintained, you know, if you get in trouble.

It's just a job that, you know, it's not like— and I love them when I say this, you know, we have an old saying in Jacksonville, Forward Together, with the firefighters, meaning we move forward together. We're a team. But it's not like, you know, when you call a firefighter to your house, you're sick or ill or, you know, you're in desperate need of help that's going to make you better. You know, when you call a police officer to your house, it's crisis time most of the time, you know. 

And someone there is not going to like you, right? There's going to be a losing person on that side or something. So the complaints come, and sometimes police officers do things that generate the complaints themselves. And there's an opportunity at times that you may be subjected to have to use deadly force or whatever it may be, and you're going to need representation.

So that was the primary driving factor for me was I didn't want to be out there alone and not have that invisible shield to make sure that at least my due process rights were protected. I might have been wrong, but it would have been investigated and handled correctly, and that was it. 

But you learn later on that you cannot replace the fraternal side of it. That's the other invisible shield that, you know, if you're down and out and you need something, your brothers and sisters come to help you. You know, we do fundraisers all the time. If people are injured, sick, hurt, can't do stuff around their house, I mean, we've seen police officers go and take care of their yard for 6 months, you know, whatever it may be that they need, they take care of it. And that's priceless.

Brian Harbin: Yeah, sure. And so kind of having that brotherhood. And then in addition to that, you guys also do a lot with, you know, wage pay and health insurance, right? I know you mentioned someone, a cop was recently shot and you guys used this fund to help pay off their house. Additional things like that that you guys do to kind of help support cops?

Steve Zona: Yeah, so every 3 years here in the state of Florida, our contracts are good for 3 years, up to 3 years. Ours is 3 years in Jacksonville. So every 3 years there's a current president of the local FOP. So now every 3 years he has to negotiate wages and benefits and working conditions for the officers, and he's got a team that he puts together that does a lot of work trying to study the roadmap around the state of where everybody else sits and what's happening around the state. 

And then they sit down with the city and they negotiate these things. And when they come to an agreement, they take it to the troops. So it's— they get a vote. I like it or I don't like it. And that's one aspect of how you make a police officer's life better is by getting them better pay and benefits.

And then we have a local nonprofit charity arm here in Jacksonville that we do 3 things with. One, we partner with other nonprofits in town and fund them for their cause. And another thing is we provide training. So we just believe that training is invaluable. It makes a police officer better at what they do. So we provide money to send them to training. 

And then the third is, you had briefly mentioned that we have like an officer welfare and relief fund. And the local president, when we had a police officer shot, decided that he wanted to pay off that officer's house. And he was able to raise the money and pay off that officer's house so they didn't have to worry about— because he can no longer work overtime, he can't work the side jobs to help pay for anything for his family. So we were able to do that.

Brian Harbin: And I know you've worked in the FOP, you know, as an executive member, and then in 2020 you were the Member of the Year. I guess you felt like there was anything kind of specific over that time period that helped you get that nomination award?

Steve Zona: So I will just say, and I've always said it, we have an amazing team. And, you know, it's always sometimes, unfortunately, the person that leads that team that gets the credit when the credit should go to the people that do a lot of the work. And we just were very fortunate over that time period, successful in Tallahassee, passing some legislation that was really meaningful for police officers, not only in Jacksonville but around the state. We were successful in some contract negotiations and other things like that.

And, you know, that was a total surprise to me. I said it then and I'll say it today, that's probably the biggest honor I've ever received because that's voted on by people inside the organization. I mean, I've gotten all kind of stuff over the years, again, because of a good team that I worked with, and they all mean a lot to me, but nothing from your peers, you know, your brothers and sisters that you work with. 

So that was, I would just have to say it was a collective of things over time that we did as a team that just kind of culminated into like the PTSD legislation we were trying to pass. Everybody around the country was trying to do that, and we were one of the first ones around the country to get that coverage for our members, which is— couldn't be talked about 10, 12 years ago. Nobody wanted to talk about that. So that was big.

Brian Harbin: And I was going to ask you about that when it comes to PTSD for officers, what have you found to be helpful in helping officers and even just people in general kind of overcome that? Do you think part of it is just having a fraternal group like that, that is, knows what you're going through, is there to kind of support you, or anything that you have found to be helpful for officers that struggle with that?

Steve Zona: Sure. So the number one thing, which our agency is leaps and bounds— I mean, right now they're just amazing in how they do it. The number one thing is for years and years and years, it was a stigma, right? The agency didn't want to talk about it. And if you did come forward, you were stripped of your gun and badge and never had a path back, right? I mean, if you come forward with a mental health issue, the agency has to take the steps to protect the agency and the community.

But in today's world, because of the understanding from most law enforcement agencies. They provide you that support. They tell you, hey, it's okay not to be okay. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to provide you the assistance and the help and the counseling you need. And you'll see officers around them that would have shied away from them 20 years ago or, you know, nodding, they just toughen up, whatever, get over it. You know, it's different. It's different now where you actually see that brotherhood come and circle them and provide that support and let them know that, hey, it's okay. It's okay to not be okay. You know, just keep getting the help you need.

And that's what the agency does. In the vast majority of the cases, they're able to work their way back to work. There's some that can't, and then, you know, they retire, medically retire, some of them, because they just can't overcome whatever it is that they're dealing with. But the support is in place now with the agency, which is the biggest thing. And the troops, they understand it and they get it, and there's no stigma anymore.

Brian Harbin: And do you think part of the process of PTSD is kind of going back through, you know, obviously with a therapist or someone that can help you, kind of going back to those traumatic events and helping understand/reframe maybe what happened to help you overcome that? Or from…

Steve Zona: Sure, yeah. And again, I'm not a psychologist, psychologist or mental health counselor, but, you know, I have delved into it a little bit in my position, you know, leading the organization over time. And it's— what I've come to understand is it's cumulative. It's not— sometimes it could be one incident, but the majority of it is for police officers, firefighters, or whatever it may be, other— some other careers too. It's cumulative over time of what you see. You know, it's not normal. 

And I think that's what talking to the mental health counselors over the years as they teach them how to deal with that trauma, you know, how to get past that and what to do when that comes forward in your mind. So I think I agree with what you're saying. It's just redirect, for lack of a better word, and I'd probably get in trouble with the mental health providers I know, but I don't know their terminology, but they do teach them how to handle it.

Brian Harbin: And what would you say with your experience, you know, over 30 years now being connected to law enforcement and patrol officers and what they go through on a daily basis. What would you say, in addition, you know, obviously the recognition and treatment of PTSD, where else would you say there's been, you know, significant progression with police officers over the last 30 years?

Steve Zona: That's probably the biggest. And then the second, and I mentioned it earlier, training. I've never, you know, we all laugh, it's, you know, the yearly training and we don't like to go, right? Because we like to be out there on the street working. But I've never left a single training that I didn't learn something, that I didn't take something away, if not from the class, from somebody sitting next to me. You know, the community expects us to become better. Things evolve over time. Police work is not the same as it was 30 years ago. They expect us to keep up with the trends in law enforcement.

So I think that's probably the next biggest area is that we have an obligation and a duty to the people we serve to be the best we can. And again, our agency— I can't speak for everyone— our agency gets that. And that's why our organization, the Fraternal Order of Police, also gets that to help them with training. 

So I think that's something different that I didn't see when I first started. Training was almost unheard of, for lack of better word. It was the core requirement areas, you know, they would send you for training to where now it's, it's well-rounded and there's a lot of stuff you can do to become a better police officer, a better person through leadership training. Also, I think that's the biggest difference when you get a professional agency that wants to improve.

Brian Harbin: And a lot of the training, is it kind of based on situational, like, hey, if you're in this situation, talking through your options and hey, let's, you know, help guide you through the best way to respond to these, or is that typically what the training is about more so than just, you know, gun range type training? It's more situational.

Steve Zona: Yeah. I mean, you have leadership training, you can have, it's had different names over the years, verbal judo, de-escalation training, verbal judo, whatever you want to call it. Those types of classes, you have classes to teach you how to become a better investigator, a better patrol officer, a better canine handler. Whatever it may be, the classes are endless now to make you a better person and a better police officer in whatever area that you want to work in.

You know, we talk about the de-escalation training and we always say it and people say, "Well, why don't police officers de-escalate more often?" And we talked about that early on. Sometimes you can't because what people always fail to realize is it takes two to de-escalate. It doesn't matter if one person's doing it and the other one's not. That you have to get that person to kind of understand also. So, but those types of things, I mean, anything you can think of now, the training is there to make you better at what you do and better to be able to respond to what the community needs.

Brian Harbin: And do you think part of being better in the moment is being better at like asking questions or trying to take in all the different parts of the environment and factor those into how you're handling it? Or what do you feel like are some helpful tips in terms of whether it's asking questions, empathy? I know you talked about that a little bit earlier.

Steve Zona: Sure. And, you know, something I struggled with early on, and I think people struggle with it in life too, it's not just the police officers, when people listen to respond and not listen to hear. So if you're speaking with somebody and you really want to find out what's going on, you have to listen and you can't be in your mind thinking, oh, this is what I'm going to tell them. You actually have to care and ask the questions and listen and then put that piece of the puzzle into the equation to make your decision.

And I think you've probably seen it, the average person has seen it in life when you're telling somebody something that happened to you today, you know, and at the end of the conversation they blow it off and just start talking about something else or just, you know, "Oh, that happened to me too, let me tell you about that." I mean, that's not what that person needs at the time they're telling you that story. They want a response and to feel like you care. So I think that's one of the biggest things is you could tell a police officer, you got to listen, not to respond, to actually try to help them.

Brian Harbin: So, yeah, makes a lot of sense. What would you say would be, you know, kind of on the flip side of that, over the last 30 years, what would you say have been some additional challenges that have come up over the last 30 years that the current force has to deal with or what would you say, any specific problems you feel like as a force you guys are trying to work on to help, you know, officers in general?

Steve Zona: Sure. I mean, there's a couple of things. I mean, when I started in police work, bad guys would run from you. Nowadays they fight you and shoot at you. So that's a big hurdle for police officers to overcome. And with technology comes people who always want to film police officers now. Which is fine. I try to tell police officers, just do the right thing and it doesn't matter what people film. Body-worn cameras has probably been the biggest new thing where police officers have had to get used to, not only here but all around the country.

And, you know, when it came here to Jacksonville, we— people thought, oh, the Fraternal Order of Police is gonna push back on body-worn cameras because they have to. It affects our terms and conditions of employment, our working conditions. So they had to bargain it, for lack of better words. And our first proposal at the table was very simple: we'll turn on the body-worn camera when we get out of the car, and we'll turn it off when we get back in. And it blew their minds, and they're like, we can't do that. Well, why not? 

We want total transparency. If we're going to put body-worn cameras on us, we'll turn them on when we get out of the car and we'll turn them off when we get back in. We don't want a list of 15 or 20 things that we have to turn this camera on for because our police officers are human. It's high stress. They're going to forget, then they're going to get in trouble. Well, the biggest cost to body-worn cameras is the storage of the footage. So we couldn't do that.

So that's been a big learning curve for police officers. And a lot of the police officers in their minds and verbally to us, like, we don't want this. It's going to be a problem. It's turned out to be the best thing ever. They love it. They really do love it because it puts to bed all those wild stories that people make up about police officers. And you're like, okay, well, here, watch this. You know, let's see the whole story.

Brian Harbin: So that's where it landed, where they turn it on when they get out and turn it off?

Steve Zona: No, there's actually— and I don't have the exact verbiage, but basically when you, for lack of better words, when you are interacting with the community in an official capacity, for lack of better words. I don't— I didn't get the exact language. I didn't know we'd talk about this. I apologize, but that's it. 

So if you're out on a call for service or anything like that, or you walk up to a citizen on the street and you're going to have an official conversation with them, not, you know, about football or anything like that, if you're going to engage in an official police activity with them, you're required to turn on your body-worn camera. You know, if you're on a scene of a guy runs into the woods and he's been in there for 3 hours and you're on the perimeter holding, you know, closing a road or something, you don't have to have it on. But just basically when you're interacting with the community in an official capacity, you're required to keep your body-worn camera on.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. So, and I would think too, in some ways technology has been a blessing because nowadays just about every business or home has video capabilities. So in a lot of ways, you know, as an investigator, it seems like it does make the job easier cuz there's more of a video trail, whereas back then you're having to go based off of word of mouth and interviews and everything else. I guess, do you feel like, I know technology, it's gonna have a blessing and a curse, but, have you found that to be something that's been more beneficial or less beneficial?

Steve Zona: More beneficial for sure. 100%. You know, they're out there. Everyone has 'em. We have 'em at home. Everybody has 'em. Security cameras, Ring cameras, whatever you want to call 'em. And they're a valuable tool that have solved a lot of crimes because you just, hey, you know, this guy came and robbed the convenience store and he left that way, you know, and then you just, as an investigator, you do the best you can to figure out who on that path that the suspect fled or the path that he approached the crime scene, wherever it may be, if there's cameras or not. And countless crimes have been solved.

So they're a blessing and a curse. But, you know, I just— I don't think I speak for the minority of the police officers. I think I speak for the majority of them. Sometimes we realize that not everybody's meant to be a police officer. So I don't even know if I'd call it a curse, you know. If, you know, the camera catches a police officer doing something immoral, illegal, unethical, it's probably a blessing, right? I mean, that they're no longer going to be working with us. You know, police officers make honest mistakes every day, and those ones are different. So, you know, we can deal with those. The honest mistakes we can deal with. But I don't even know if it's a curse. I don't even, I wouldn't even say it's a curse. I would just say it's a blessing.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And in terms of, because I know being a police officer now is more under the radar in terms of You know, like you said, everybody wants to film trying to catch a cop doing something wrong. Do you feel like that's affected recruiting, or do you feel like, you know, the influx of people that want to be police officers is still pretty strong and steady?

Steve Zona: So it killed recruiting. You know, the summer of 2020, when it all started, it decimated recruiting. Nobody wanted to be a police officer. I mean, I consider it a noble profession. I consider it a calling. You know, I called it a job or a calling. Not everybody sees it as a calling anymore. They don't get, you know, attached to it like many did back in the day. But I think it killed it. I think you saw the public sentiment. You know, I always say in law enforcement, the pendulum swings and it doesn't stay too far left or too far right for a long time. It stays in the middle, which allows us to recruit good people. But I think the pendulum swung too far that time. And I think it killed, it decimated recruiting because everybody went on the defund the police, you know, that was popular back then.

Everybody saw it until they realized that, you know, and I firmly believe what I'm about to say is nothing functions without law and order. Nothing else matters if people don't feel safe. And if you can't have, when you're not recruiting the best and the brightest, it affects— long-term affects not only the agency but the community. 

So yeah, it hurt. The filming of police officers doesn't hurt. I think most of them are past that. I think that was what you originally asked about. They know it's part of the job, right? They know people come and try to set you up and make you do and say things you shouldn't do and say. I think the majority of the police officers are over that portion of it. And I think the pendulum has got back to where it belongs. You know, it's swinging in both directions a little bit now, maintains in the middle more often than not, and we're able to recruit. We've seen a spike in people who want to apply now.

Brian Harbin: So you have seen it swing back the other way. Anything you feel like has helped kind of helped entice more young people to get into?

Steve Zona: Sure. I think the job is a job and the calling is a calling. I think what we have done as an organization, when you support the people that want to be police officers, people see that and they realize that that's a good thing. 

Bigger than that, I think, is you have to have a sheriff like we have in Jacksonville who is publicly supportive of their police officers, right? Why would you ever want to go be a police officer if you thought you would make an honest mistake and your boss was going to sell you out? We don't have that in Jacksonville. We're fortunate with the sheriff we have.

Second to that is the elected leaders, right? I mean, they might not— police work isn't pretty all the time, and they might not agree with what they're seeing, but all we've ever asked elected leaders is just wait. Wait for the investigation to come out. Don't go out there, you know, and condemn these police officers before you know what happened. 

And when you have the combination of a good working environment, and a supportive structure in the political world and in the area which you work that encourages people to become police officers because most people know. I mean, like you hear people, "I would never do your job. You know, I would never do your job." Well, if you did it for a week, you probably would. You would love it.

But I think that's what we look for is to make sure that, like we do at the Fraternal Order of Police, that the due process rights are preserved during that process. And it has to start with the sheriff and then it has to resonate in the community leaders, for lack of a better word, to support them when they're having a bad time, you know. 

And look, in the end it might not turn out good for the police officer, but at least the due process rights and you allowed it to play through and not become a political football. So if you have that, you know, people want to come work at that agency.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And I can see too how even though, you know, sometimes society gives a hard time to police officers, at the same time, I can see how that can make the body of existing police officers stronger because they said it makes you part of a group. You know, you have a larger purpose, you have leaders who are going to support you. And is the military, is that still a good source of recruitment for us?

Steve Zona: Absolutely. And you just touched on something where people giving police officers a hard time. I have never in my career, my 29 years, gone into any community from the most affluent to the poorest, to the most crime-ridden to the safest, where the people who weren't the criminals didn't say they wanted more police officers. They like us. The average person likes us. They just want us to do it fairly. They just want us to police fairly. So it's, you know, it's always the vocal minority that drums up everything. And if you can tune that out, you'll be okay.

Brian Harbin: I love that. Let's see, I wanted to ask you too about outside of work. You know, obviously you've got 3 kids, 3 grown kids, 3 grown kids. You've been married for 31 years. As a parent, anything specific that you and your wife did that you feel like you wanted to instill those hardworking principles that you had into your own kids and kind of how you did that? Any parenting advice that you would have reflecting back?

Steve Zona: We did the same thing because my wife was kind of raised the same way. Same thing with our kids, you know, instilled in them that nobody owes you anything. You need to go get it. And you need to be a part of the solution at work and not a part of the problem. And what they owe you comes every 2 weeks. And we've kind of instilled, you know, we love it during the summer months. Every Sunday's pool day. You know, the kids and the grandkids come over and we just hang out kind of like we did growing up.

And we always— I think it's important, it's something my parents did well. If we didn't ask for something like advice or something like that, they were hesitant to give it. If they saw us going really astray, they'd try to put us back on track. And when they did, they were just so great and giving advice based on their life experiences, and then you had to make the decision. You know, you had to be the one. Are you going to take the advice or not? So it's kind of what we've instilled in our kids, you know, do the right things, go be a part of the solutions and not part of the problems, and do what makes you happy.

Brian Harbin: And taking ownership of their decisions.

Steve Zona: Have to. You gotta own it. Yeah.

Brian Harbin: And I know you're, you know, in terms of hobbies outside of all that you do with the FOP, I know you're big into hunting. How long you been hunting now?

Steve Zona: So I was originally, I was big into golf. I love to golf. I was golfing all the time. You know, I had a big group of people I golfed with, a couple times a week. And then a buddy of mine said, hey, come hunting with me. I was like, I don't want to do this. And, so I've been hunting since 1998, which is not a long time for a lot of people. And part of the joy of it is my dad goes. So, you know, some of my best friends and my dad goes with me. So, we hunt a lot. It's hunting season now, so I enjoy that. And you know, it's a good time.

Brian Harbin: Yeah. And what would you say, and obviously you hunted while you were a patrol officer as well. Do you feel like that was kind of a form of your own version of therapy in terms of just having something outside of work you're passionate about that you can, you know, hang out with the guys and, and still, you know, have something exciting, or what was that for you, do you think? 

Steve Zona: Sure. No, absolutely. I mean, you have to, and we talked about a little bit, you have to be able to turn it off. You have to be able to do something and realize that a police officer is not your identity, right? That there's other things in life that you have to enjoy. 

So yeah, that was, for lack of better words, I would tend to agree with you. That's my therapy, right? That's my fun time. I mean, other than that, I tell my wife all the time, I'm happy when I'm near you. And she comes every now and then with me too. So she doesn't hunt, but she comes to the camp. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, do something that makes you happy and gets you away from what you see and do every day.

Brian Harbin: And then what about anything, I guess, you're working on now or anything that is a big initiative for FOP or anything, I guess, you want to kind of put out there that you feel like you're passionate about or that you're working on or?

Steve Zona: We have some things in the pipeline that's not really out there yet. You know, we always look to strive to make our police officers' lives better, you know, when they come to work, that the environment they work in is better. So that's where we're actively engaged on looking at some things right now.

Brian Harbin: And that's a role you kind of see yourself doing for the foreseeable future?

Steve Zona: Sure, sure. I enjoy that. I mean, I still do work with the team here in Jacksonville and do local stuff, but one of the things I enjoy is actually going out to Tallahassee and, you know, tipping the scale, to make it better, for police officers. It's always good when you can accomplish something like that because you see how it affects the, you know, tens and tens of thousands of police officers here in Florida.

Brian Harbin: And I love too what you said. We had interviewed Sheriff Cook and she said, you know, her shadow day was really what tipped her over the edge. She's like, I'm definitely going do this. So that sounds like a great recruiting tool.

Steve Zona: Yeah.

Brian Harbin: Well, our last question, one question we ask all of our guests is about the GRIT Creed. These are 12 principles that we really try and instill in the next generation. And I know you have a list of those 12, I guess which one of those resonates to you most and why? I know you touched on it briefly here a minute ago.

Steve Zona: Sure. I think looking at, I mean, they're all good. But you know how I was raised and how we raise our kids and how I've try to be at work, you know, don't be a problem spotter. You can be a problem spotter, but be a problem solver at the same time. It's kind of like, you know, I tell my kids, go to work and do the right thing, be a part of the solution, be a part of making it better. If you're going to be a problem spotter, you need to be that problem solver and then work as a team to make everything better for everybody. 

So we've all seen people who drop a bomb on the way by. Let me tell you about this. It's wrong. You know, and then they keep on walking out the door. You don't need that person. You should just close the door behind them and go find somebody else to be a part of your team. So that one really resonates with me.

Brian Harbin: I love that! Well, thank you, Steve! 

It's been great being able to hear kind of your perspective about being a patrol officer, all the things you guys do with the FOP, and really just appreciate all that you do and the people that you've worked with have done in terms of protecting and serving. 

So I really appreciate being here today and getting to hear your story!

Steve Zona: No, I appreciate you having me, and I appreciate the city of Jacksonville, all the citizens that lived in Jacksonville. Was a great time for 29 years, and I loved it.

Brian Harbin: Excellent! Well, that's a wrap for today's episode of the Grit.org podcast. Appreciate you guys tuning in, and we'll see you next time! Thanks!